Candidate Videos & Interviews

Conversations with the 2026 Lee County School Board candidates, with full word-for-word transcripts you can read alongside each video.

Candidate interviews, with full transcripts

Jenn McDaigle - District 1 School Board Candidate Interview

Join us as we interview Jenn McDaigle and get her insight and perspective on how her corporate training and expertise can bring better working conditions and budgetary accountability to the Lee County School Board.

Debbie Jordan - District 4 School Board Candidate Interview

Join us as we interview Debbie Jordan for her perspective on the state of the school board and the associated politics as well as what it means to her to continue to be an advocate for the schools, teachers and support staff she interacts with so regularly.

Carline Saintilus - District 5 School Board Candidate Interview

Join us as we interview Carline Saintilus who brings a desire to build a better district in East Lee County and improve student outcomes as well as establishing fiscal responsibility and support for teachers and schools throughout Southwest Florida.

India Palencia - District 6 School Board Candidate Interview

Join us as we interview India Palencia to learn more about her community advocacy, fiscal accountability priorities and passion for putting students and teachers first with resources they need.

Chelsea Clarke - Lee County School District English Teacher

Join us as we interview Chelsea Clarke, Pre-IB English teacher and native that graduated from Fort Myers High school and is a huge proponent of Public Education as a graduate from the Lee County School System herself.

KJ Cebull — A 13-Year-Old's Perspective on the School District of Lee County

A student's view from the inside. KJ Cebull shares what it's actually like to be a student in the Lee County School District — and his perspective on the future of learning.

Jenn Mcdaigle — interview transcript

Jenn McDaigle, a District 1 challenger and former technology-sector sales executive, discusses running for the school board after advocating for her medically complex daughter within the district. Her priorities include budget transparency (citing the district's deficit and borrowing from capital funds), better pay and support for teachers and staff, reliable special-education services, more frequent board meetings, and thoughtful use of AI alongside hands-on learning. She notes endorsements from the teachers' and support-staff unions.

Jenn McDaigle: Okay, so I'm Jenn McDaigle. I am running for Lee County School Board District 1. The reason I got into this is because I have a four-year-old, first of all, who is starting kindergarten. So two years ago, I had to start thinking about what we were going to do and where she was going to go and all of that. And then I started to see some of what's happening in the district. So I'm in District 1, but really all of Lee County is having a similar struggle. So District 1 is most of the Cape. It's the islands, Sanibel, Captiva, Matlaché, a little bit of Burnt Store Road. So that's District 1. So that's where I am. But the reason I'm running is because I don't believe the teachers and the staff and the students are receiving the support and the resources that they need to be truly successful. And I really want to change that because I want Waverly to have an environment that she can go in where she gets to have the arts and do all the creative things that she loves. But also gets to learn and do all the things that she's really excited about now and not have that snuffed out of her because they're just trying to get her to memorize things to pass a test.
Interviewer: Yeah, it's definitely an interesting perspective on success in education and what that looks like. What are the main things that you want to see change and that you see as problematic inside the school district now and the management from a board perspective?
Jenn McDaigle: Yeah, so probably what I would guess most people would say is along with me. So this isn't going to be like a new answer, but it's just budget transparency. Like nobody knows what's happening with the budget. They talk about legacy spending, which is like, what does that even mean? Huge deficits of money, like the upwards of, you know, $50 million in debt after they borrowed $40 plus million from capital funds again this year to pay off that debt. And when you look at the budget, it's very, very vague about what's happening with it. When they have the board meetings, a lot of times they will discuss it beforehand. And then when the board meeting is public, they just will hold the vote and say what they're going to do without us getting to hear, well, what is this about? And why have you made this decision? Why are these teachers being let go? What's happened to the money that was supposed to be there for them? Like there's no transparency or visibility into the decisions that the board is making. And we should have visibility into it because we're voting for them. So essentially they work for us as the public. So that's the biggest thing that I would want to change is to provide transparency in that because I believe if the budget is better managed, then we can give our teachers what they deserve, the support that they need. We can make sure the exceptional students are not being forced into clustered schools together where they don't belong together. Or parents of these children with highly special needs are being forced to drive over an hour away to a school that works for their kids because the budgeting is not being handled properly.
Interviewer: One of the biggest questions that I think comes up and gets maybe turned very political is priority in budget as far as fiscal responsibility. And so what would be your goal as far as how to balance appropriate teacher compensation and support with budgetary discretion and fiscal responsibility?
Jenn McDaigle: Yeah, it's a good question. And I think if we really do an audit of the budget and how it's being used, like there's some line items of I think over $200,000, for example, for an attorney that is just kind of there just in case the superintendent needs something. Like I don't think we need an attorney that's a friend of theirs being paid a bunch of money just to hang out just in case. Like if something happens, get an attorney and they can handle it. So there's a lot of outside lobbyists are paid a ton of money. There's a bunch of administrative stuff that I think can be cut. We're spending a lot of money on iReady and technology that is actually proving to be detrimental to elementary students in particular. The grades are getting worse, not better with it. So we don't need to be spending money on that. They need to be off the screens. They need to be interacting. They need to be doing hands-on learning. And all of that costs less. So I think if we do those things, there will be money left over to pay the teachers what they need and to give them the support that they need so they're not spending over $1,000 of their own money buying school supplies to manage their classroom. It's really unfair how expensive it is to live where we live. And they're being paid. I think the starting salary is like $54,000. Under $55,000 a year to live in this area is most of them are having to work multiple jobs. And then they're teaching during the day. They've got to grade parents' grade papers after that. They've got to do lesson plans. There's a whole host of things they do outside the classroom during the day. So then you add a second job onto that. And they don't have everything that they could be bringing to our students available because they're having to work extra jobs.
Interviewer: Do you feel like the board, as it currently exists, has enough understanding of what is actually happening inside the teacher experience and the student experience inside schools to really prioritize what needs to be prioritized?
Jenn McDaigle: Well, listen, I'm not spending every second with the people that are on the board. So I don't know exactly what they're doing. But the sense that I get is that unless it's election time, they're not really spending a lot of time in the schools. Many of them don't even have kids that attend public schools. A lot of them have them in expensive private schools. So it doesn't seem like there's a lot of time spent in the schools that isn't for a photo op or something like that. So given what I'm hearing with the people that I'm talking to in the community, I would say no. They're not living it with their own families. And they're not around enough to see what's really happening and to know what those needs are. And that's why I think they need to be having more than one school board meeting a month so that, you know, there's more time because people show up and they want to speak. And then you get limited to sometimes one minute if there's too many people that need to speak. And then there's no time for them to respond. They just kind of look at you while you're saying stuff to them. And then that's it. You never hear anything about what you've said to them. So I think there needs to be more room for them to be listened to the public, listen to the teachers, listen to the students often come in and have things that they're saying. To take that into consideration. If you're not going to go to the places, then give them a space to come to you and talk to you.
Interviewer: So as a concerned parent inside the public school system of Lee County, what is a constructive feedback loop look like for you that you might want to implement inside the board and for transparency with parents?
Jenn McDaigle: That's a good question. I was thinking about it in terms of the teachers union because I know that for the last two years they have stopped having meetings with the teachers union. So there's been a lot of strife there and a lawsuit that costs millions of dollars, which probably has something to do with the debt as well, that wouldn't have been needed if they were staying connected to the teachers. So I do think part of that is staying connected to the teachers union because the teachers are going to be hearing from the parents and knowing what the parents are thinking and what's important to them. And then I think the other part of that is if you're around in the schools, you're going to be seeing the parents and coming in contact with them. And again, the board meetings are open to the public and there is a whole section for public comment that, again, this gets cut very short a lot of times. Extending that, opening it up more. I think making yourself available for the publics that come in. I know one of the members on the school board now, the people have her cell phone number. Like they can reach out to her, which is maybe a lot. You don't want everybody in the county calling you, but, you know, but, you know, the certain people can reach her so that she knows what's going on. And so I think making yourself available, having an open door policy when people can set appointments to come and talk to you about what really matters. And then actually doing something about it, not just listening to them to then say, okay, great. And then never doing anything about it, which seems to be what's happening now.
Interviewer: Yeah. I think being heard is so important to parents and teachers alike. What are some of the things that you're hearing from parents and teachers in the area as far as what's going on in their frustrations?
Jenn McDaigle: One of the things that I continue to learn about and I should specify for me that part of the reason that I'm running is I have two daughters. My oldest daughter, Quillen, was born with a really rare neurodegenerative disease that less than 40 people in the world have. So I spent a lot of time advocating for her within the school. So I'm very familiar with the gaps that are there and the lack of resourcing for exceptional students. And there is a big difference between medically complex and children that have behavioral challenges as well. So things like trying to combine them into one school, medically complicated kids who are non-mobile, non-verbal, with children that have behavioral issues is really kind of a recipe for disaster. And those kinds of things or decisions are being made without asking the teachers, without asking the parents. I think those kinds of things are really frustrating. Another thing that I am hearing and I also saw as part of this is that there are services that some of the students that have these special needs, they're guaranteed by law to get services while they're in school. They're not happening, especially in the poorer areas. I was, as part of the, talking to the people in the interviews that I've done to be endorsed by the teachers union and the SPALC, the support staff union and other endorsements that I've gotten, I've learned that they're like, we haven't even had a speech therapist in the school for the whole year. And the parents don't know. So they are sending their kids to school thinking that they're getting speech therapy or occupation therapy, whatever the therapy is, and then they're coming home and not getting better. And these parents, that's devastating as someone who had that. If my daughter's name was Quillen, she passed away in 2023. But it was so paramount. She was three times a week going to these therapies. And if she missed them, you fall backwards so fast. And they work so hard to gain those things. So as a parent, sending her to school and then thinking she's getting services and then she comes home and is not getting better, devastating. Because in my case, it was a neurodegenerative disease. So I'm thinking she's regressing. But really, she's not actually getting treatments. So it's really not okay. So it's very, it's like life, their life depends on these services in a lot of cases. So that's a really big concern, obviously, for the teachers in the school that know that's not happening, as well as the parents, those who know that it's happening. And a lot of them don't know that it's happening. So those are some of the things. I think the other side of that, there's some stuff around. I think teachers are feeling a little bit like they don't have a ton of autonomy in the way that they can teach, the things that they can teach about and talk about. I think that they, you know, they're so focused on these test scores and they have to, you know, they have to increase the test scores every year. And that's how everything is graded on. So they're just forced to teach in a way that they just are memorizing things to pass these tests and not really actually learning in the way that's best for these kids to learn and the way that, you know, prepares them for life in the future, in the future.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. When you look at any organization as a whole, there's so much data that says when you support your employees that outcomes are better. And yet it seems like the priorities of the current school board are sort of the opposite is like they're trying to, I guess, build like an administrative infrastructure and then, you know, not supporting the people on the front line. What is what does that support look like in your eyes as far as supporting teachers and support staff?
Jenn McDaigle: Yeah. So a couple of things on that that came up. I think supporting teachers means setting a more clear protocol in place for if a parent makes a complaint. I think there's a little bit of a fear now that one parent complaint can cost you your job. And parents have every right to come in. And if they think something's wrong, they should be able to speak about it. But there needs to be a really clear path of like, OK, this before they go complaining to whoever's at the top or the school board. Have you spoken to the teacher? Have you spoken to the, you know, the principal of that school? Like, what are the steps that you've taken? And even then, if it's brought to the school board, what is the protocol for how we research this and see what happened? And, you know, give a little bit more a sense of like they don't have to be on edge constantly that, you know, any little thing that they say or do can be used against them. And now they now they don't have a job. So that's that's one. On the other side of it, the support staff. One of the things that was clear when I was doing the interview for the endorsement is they for sure do not feel valued. The support staff, the para staff, they're being asked to do way too much for too little. There's not enough bus drivers. The food apparently in the cafeteria, nobody should be eating it. It's not good. They don't feel good serving it. There's really no path for them either to grow a career. So they kind of get stuck where they are because I said to them, I was like, do you guys have reviews? Because I'm from, you know, I'm corporate America for the last 10 years as vice president of sales and global technology and AI companies. So this is a little bit new to me how this ran. They just laughed when I asked if they had reviews and talked about where they wanted to be in five years and all of that. That's not anything that they have. And they would really like to have some kind of path, even if it's lateral, to move into other parts of the government or things where they can have a path to learn and grow. So have a little bit of, you know, in corporate America where I come from, you have a little bit of professional development budget that you get to use for your own learning and to be able to grow and do those things. And they just don't have any of that. So I think even if you can rearrange the budget so that you're not wasting it on other things and you can give it to the support staff and the teachers and they feel valued and get to your point. When you feel valued and you're learning and there's benefits like that and you know you're moving somewhere in your career, you're going to work that much harder. It's going to be that much more important to you instead of being just exhausted and tired and beaten down because you're doing too much and having to work multiple jobs. No, that serves no one. No one is doing well in that environment. No one's succeeding.
Interviewer: Yeah. What do you feel like about your unique experience as a mom to both a emerging kindergartner and a medically needy child and also your experience in tech and corporate America? How do you feel like that converges to give you the strengths that you contribute to the board and where would those shine the best?
Jenn McDaigle: Yeah, a great question and I thought about this a lot and it's also a big part of why I'm running. So I don't know if you're familiar with Instacart, but the CEO of Instacart was Fiji Simo and she is now, she left, I don't know exactly how long ago, six months to a year ago. She left Instacart and is now the CEO of OpenAI, Chad Chibi T. So needless to say, AI was very, very important to her. She also had her own like medical condition that she was able to utilize AI for medical reasons, but also to enable her to do her job in the way that she needed to when she was having flare ups with her. I think it was an autoimmune disease. So it was, we absolutely had no choice. It was like, if you're not using AI, you're not getting money for your team. You're not getting promoted. If you come to me and ask for anything, I need you to show me how you've tried to use AI to do this before you asked me for like, it was very hardcore. They gave us all the tools and even money that we were able to put towards it to do it on our own personal time. And I, that, because of that, I have a lot of understanding of where that's headed, how that's happening, the dangers of it. I think we can't not, we can't pretend it doesn't exist and try to not use it. And I know there's concerns around the environment and all of that, and that's all fair and should be considered, but it's not going away. So we do need to use it and we, but we need to use it thoughtfully in education. So a quick example is have the child write the essay in class. So, you know, they're writing it themselves. Then they can go home and put it in AI and say, what are some perspectives that I haven't thought about on this? Or just have a dialogue with AI that gives you different things to think about in different perspectives. Like you can use it in a way that makes your critical thinking grow and that makes you stronger as a person. Or you can use it in a way that does everything for you and you just get dumber by the second. We don't want that part. We don't want the latter, obviously. So that's really what I want to bring is I want to make sure that we're focusing on that so they're prepared for the future and the world they're actually inheriting. But also not to the point where they're not, they're on screens too much. They don't know how to interact socially. Like we need them to have hands-on learning because that's going to be more important with AI doing more of these other things. We're going to need to know how to do things with our hands. We're going to need to know how to interact. Communication, interpersonal stuff is going to become more and more important. So I want to make sure that we're focusing on all of those things, adaptability, critical thinking, hands-on experiential learning, while also ensuring that they understand the technology and know how to use it in a way that makes them better.
Interviewer: I think it's super important. And I think given what a hot-button topic that is these days, that most people would just hesitate to even bring that up in general. But I think it's super important.
Jenn McDaigle: It is. Because it's a very real future that's going to exist.
Interviewer: I would love for you to address the people in your district and to tell them what they can expect if you're elected to the school board.
Jenn McDaigle: So what you can expect from me is I will fight in every board meeting, in every board meeting for transparency. I'm going to be fighting on behalf of the students. And my slogan is for every child. And that is very real to me. When I say for every child, that means something different to me than it does to the average person. Because I have two daughters and they are on either side of the spectrum. And they're both exceptional and special in their own way and have very, very different needs that they need to experience in school. And they both deserve dignity and respect and all of the resources that are needed to them. So when I say every child, that's I will be fighting on behalf of every child. This is not any kind of political aspiration for me. I don't want to climb the political ladder. I really genuinely don't. Running for office has been, this is the first time I've ever done it. And it's harder than being the vice president of sales at a global company. I'm just going to let you know it's a lot. So, but it's worth it if you can get in and you can make a change and you can make a difference. And that's genuinely what I want to do. I want my remaining daughter and every child in Lee County to have a school that they're excited to go to. My daughter Waverly loves going to school. She loves, she can tell you the name of every dinosaur. She can draw them like just by hand. She mixes colors together and does them all. She loves learning her letters. She loves learning all of those things. And I don't want her to be robbed of that. I want her to have a school that she continues to be excited to go to. Instead of, as I see kids, as they start to go to school, they don't want to go. They start to hate it. And they just, all of the joy is sucked out of it. And I really want to fight to make sure that we're giving the teachers and the students and the staff all the resources that they need to make this what it needs to be. I want Lee County to be the place where teachers want to come to build their careers and plant their roots and stay here because we have such a good education system that they want to be part of.
Interviewer: Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Debbie Jordan — interview transcript

Debbie Jordan, the District 4 incumbent seeking re-election, reflects on serving on a seven-member board alongside a newly elected superintendent, which she says has made oversight harder. She describes herself as the board's most fiscally cautious member and a frequent lone 'no' vote, and raises concerns about last-minute information, budget cuts affecting school arts programs, and the move to one public meeting per month. She emphasizes being present in schools, career and technical pathways, and listening to frontline staff.

Debbie Jordan: Okay, so I'm Debbie Jordan. I am running for the school board district four, which is encompassing of Fort Myers, East Fort Myers, North Fort Myers, and the Cape. So it's a giant U. That's our district. However, we represent the entire county.
Interviewer: Tell me you all have a unique perspective in that you're already on the board and you are rerunning. And I imagine that's a very difficult place to be in right now. And so tell me what has been your experience being on the board this year and where your frustrations lie and where you want to go from here.
Debbie Jordan: Okay, well, to me, I don't think it's difficult. What it is, is we have a board of seven. So we there are seven of us. And plus now we haven't an elected superintendent. So that makes the dynamics completely different. Because when we had an appointed superintendent, they actually reported to the board. And the board had more control over what was taking place. There are straight lines on what our role is, you know, as a board member and what a superintendent is. However, with an elected superintendent, it is harder to hold them accountable for that because the only people that really can hold them accountable are the people. So your voters and the governor. So in that it's been very trying because of things that are being done at the district. And so when we're having these votes, and when I come to the board meeting, I have notes galore, because I'm prepared. And when a lot of times we'll find something out at the very last minute, which is very frustrating. Or I'm hearing it out in the community because I believe that our job is to be present. So I am always out in the community speaking to people. And so when I'm hearing things, and I go back and I'll go, wait a second, what is this? What is happening here? For instance, we had the Buckingham situation that took place. I did not I heard about it outside before we got wind of it inside. And so I know both of those schools very well. Because again, as I said, I am not only out in the community, I am always in the schools, all the schools, regardless if they're in my district or not, because I think it's imperative for us to, to be out there and be amongst the community. So we know what is happening and what they're what they feel. So that was one incident. And then it was like, wait a second, when is this coming to the board? Well, then I found out, well, it's not coming to the board, because they did in such a way where it did not have to come. So there's a lot of ways that things are taking place that would never have taken place if it was an appointed superintendent. So to me, it's been very trying and like you have to study and know everything that has taken place. And then, you know, then double check it. It's like fact check all the time on what you're even seeing. Is this actually what is real? So that has been, it's very time consuming. But it's something that you have to do because you're accountable, you know, in the end. And then we had the, the budget thing that had come up. And a lot of that was I walked up to the dropped my granddaughter off. And I had people crying and people were so upset because they felt that they were not going to have a job. They were losing the arts. And that was, we kind of opened my family was part of the opening of this was Edison Park, was part of that opening of that school when it became a magnet. So it's very dear and near to to my heart. And I understood what the magnet school was for, you know, in the arts, it was to encompass everything together. So the learning of the kids would be stronger. And it was. And so when you are telling, now you're taking that budget and go and giving it to the principals and saying, here, now it was supposed to be 2%. Then I'm finding out that some were 12%, some were 22%. So that three and 5% that was being spoken out there in the world was not actually the case. So that's very frustrating because now it's like, okay, how are we as a district making these comments, but yet that's not really happening. And I know that they love to use the word, we're conservative this because I am the most conservative person on the board, because of the fact of the spending of money, you know, so I'm always paying attention to how we spend money, whether it's our lobbyists, or building schools, whatever that looks like. It is like, wait a second, let's hold, you know, hold on for a second. And I will be that no vote. And I'm okay with that. You know, if I'm the only no vote, so be it.
Interviewer: And that has that been your experience over your board term this previous time?
Debbie Jordan: Yes. In this last year, I will say year, year and a half, it has been that way. But again, I'm okay, because I know that when I'm making my vote, the vote is what I have. And that's why to me, it's imperative that people get out and vote because that's what we have is our voice. And so when I make that vote, I know that I'm going to sleep at night. And I am looking at, you know, how does this affect our children? How does it affect our classes? And, you know, maybe I get it wrong. Sometimes, I'm gonna say the majority of the time, I'm pretty good with it. But I just, I think that's, you know, it's really important that we do focus and pay attention to, you know, our classrooms, our teachers, our schools, because we're an education system.
Interviewer: So moving forward into this next term, if you are elected, what will you try to change inside of there knowing that this time, it was really hard to get the information that you needed and to make sure that, you know, the board was getting all of the information in advance?
Debbie Jordan: Well, I think that, well, I'm never going to stop advocating. So I will continue to advocate and I will continue to do my job. It's okay, if they're not happy with me asking questions, I'm okay with that, because I will continue to do so. And as of July 1, we do have a, it's called the school bill, bill of rights, which allows even right now, we're allowed to have information that is needed. But this school bill, bill of rights, make sure that there's no questions. So we're asking for numbers, or we're asking for information, it has to be provided or you're violating the rights. And it's a statute. So I'm ready. You know, I'm going to continue on and, and do what I, you know, make sure that I'm out there supporting our families, our children, our teachers, our schools. So nothing's going to, you know, change with when it comes to that, I will be present. Yeah.
Interviewer: Um, I've heard from many people that you are one of the board members that seems very, very tuned in to everything going on in the community, in the district, at the schools. Um, what is, what is your favorite part of the Lee County public school system as it exists right now?
Debbie Jordan: I think for me, it's really important because I have many grandkids. So my grandkids are spread out throughout Lee County. And I think the fact that, and I've been an advocate for this since my first run, it's, uh, making sure that we have pathways for our children, whatever that looks like for them. I mean, as I said, I have many grandkids, so some of them, you know, want to go to the college round, but then again, my granddaughter came out as a welder making fantastic money at the age of 18. So to me, when you're looking at that and given opportunities, and if I thought about it before, I'm thinking about it now where my kids, I felt like they had to go to college, but now I'm like, wait a second, we need an electrician. We need a plumber. We need everything that you can imagine that could help the family dynamics as far as everybody else. And it's good paying work, the trades. So I've been a part of the, you know, the CTE, you know, and making sure that we do have those pathways. And so I'm really proud that we have all the academies in our schools. So when our kids are looking at, you know, what does our future look like? How can I finish school and walk out and be productive? You know, and that's what we want. We want them to be a productive citizen. And not only that, our schools are the economic drivers of our community, real estate, whatever you think about, that's what brings people. If you have good schools, they're going to come. You have good schools, they're not going to take a voucher. You know, they're going to stay within our public schools. And so we just need to tell our story better. And when I'm out there, I speak about the good stuff that our kids do. Like we have kids at Dunbar. I can talk about this all day. Kids at, some of our they went to Harvard for free. They went to MIT. They have all these opportunities and scholarships that, and that's many of our kids. And when you go to graduations, not only are they graduating with a high school diploma, they're graduating with their AA. So they're already a step ahead. And I just think that the district needs to share that. And even this term, when I'm out and I'm campaigning, I notice, and I was at a debate the other night, and everybody was speaking about the negative, negative. I am the person who will not speak negative. I know there's always room for improvement, always. And that's in anything in life. But I do know how hard our kids, our teachers, and everybody works. So let's give them those, you know, that praise and speak on the good stuff that they're doing, which I am that person that's going to do that for them. Because I want, I want people to know that we do have a lot of great things happening. You know, it's not always negative, even though, like I said, we can improve, we can make changes, but let's give them what they deserve. Yeah.
Interviewer: I was born and raised in this area. I'm in a public school product. And I, I, I do see differences now in my middle school kids at their Cypress Middle, versus when I started, but there's, there's still a lot of good. So I definitely think there's been a ton of negative publicity on the school system. As of late, it's obviously got to be super hard, because we're, I just read something yesterday or today or something in Gulf Shore Business saying that they're like one of the top employers in the area is the Lee County School District.
Debbie Jordan: Yes.
Interviewer: So I thought that was super interesting. So what does it look like to better support those frontline workers and teachers that are feeling unsupported right now inside the school system? As amazing as it is, how can we, how can we improve that part of it in your eyes?
Debbie Jordan: Right. So what I do believe that we need to do is not just tell the story, we need to do a better job of listening. So it's great, you know, that we are doing a lot of the good stuff. But again, when you're out there, like I said, I go and I visit all the schools. And not only am I visiting classrooms, I go in and I see how the people in the cafeteria are, you know, how are you doing? You know, how's your day going? The bus drivers, if I see a bus driver anywhere, I don't care if they're in the parking lot of publics, I will walk up to the bus, thank them and ask them, how was your day? Because in order for you to understand what is happening, you, you can't just rely on the district to tell you, you have to get out there and really speak to the people who are in the trenches and who are doing the jobs. And so I think that if we can better understand what they're, you know, if they have issues or their concerns, and really not just hear what they say, but listen to what they're saying. And then take that and invite them to the table, for goodness sakes, you know, let them come in and help us. We have talented teachers, we pay these companies to come in and help, you know, advance our other teachers, we have teachers right here in our district. And I can attest to, like, my granddaughter, for instance, you know, she was a one when she walked in. And now she's a five in the majority of the classrooms were the same. And that was in their reading. What is that teacher doing to make those kids advance like that, and then have the love for learning and the love for reading, because you need reading in order to be great at math and everything else. So how do we not utilize the talent that we have within? And I think if we did that, I think that that would bring, give them more like hope, you know, it's like, Oh, they appreciate what I am bringing to the table, and they are using us. And then we save on money that we're spending on these outside people, because we already have the talent, but appreciate and let them let them show us what they're doing. Yeah.
Interviewer: In your opinion, how do we improve the relationship between the teachers, the parents, and the school board? I think right now, it is not in the greatest spot. And I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on that.
Debbie Jordan: Well, I think that, to me, which I voted against, and that was taking the meetings to one meeting a month. I do believe that we need to have more than one meeting a month. And I hear them saying, Well, you can, you know, they can send an email, they can do this, really, give people an opportunity to come forward, give them an opportunity to have that conversation. I hear from them, because I'm out there, but I'm one person. So I'm everywhere. And I am hearing and listening. And I'm bringing back what concerns that are being said. But even when we cannot have because of sunshine, we have to speak about whatever is going on that may come to a vote has to be done in the sunshine. So that would be at the board table. But when they don't want to have a conversation, that is a problem. So how do we, we listen to people come up, our board policy says that, you know, we cannot have interaction with them. Great. I take notes of everybody that comes forward. And that way, I can have the opportunity to reach back out, or have the superintendent or whoever, you know, whatever the issue was, it's like, can we please, you know, follow up with these people. But I just think that, and it is hard to, because you got to remember, we have so many, we're like a rich, poor county, if you really think about that. We have so many families who have, you know, they're working two, three jobs, do they have time to really look at every single thing that's coming back? How do we engage the families within the schools? And we know, I mean, it's just statistics. When we have parents and family engagement, kids will do much better, because they know that they have that support. Even if it's for, you know, five minutes, whatever that looks like for that family. I think that's really imperative. And I and I have noticed that some of our schools, especially the ones that are the community partnership schools, they do things like events invite the whole families in. So not only are the parents coming in, and listening and seeing they bring the kids in, the kids can go into another room, they'll feed them. And then the parents are having conversation on what's because that's the only time they have. So what what can we do to help you help your child? So when I think that when I'm going and I see these where you have 100 plus, that's a good day, you know, when you see parents, you know, doing that. And then again, we have the language barriers. So we have so many of our students because we are a minority majority district. I don't care what anybody wants to think that's what we are. So we have the people who they don't have that language and the children are speaking for the parents. So we just have to really try to hone in on that and try to capture, you know, as much as we can. But I will tell you, I see the families of their children coming to these, like PTA, PTOs, and even the PTAs and PTOs, if they're strong, I think that supports the schools, the teachers and, and the families. Yeah,
Interviewer: I feel like you've spoken really well on your passion for the district and for hearing families out and, and really understanding the needs of the community. What else?
Debbie Jordan: I think what is to me is what is really important. We have to do a better job as a community, understanding what is happening and reading. And it's not just about one group of people, because that's not who we are as a society. And I think when we allow that to take place and, and say, it's just one side or another, we know that that is not correct. So I think that people need to start finding their voices and really, and make sure that they vote because that is your opportunity to make sure you have people that are going to represent you and not the corporate or whatever, whatever they want to make it to be. But really, that's going to represent the people and the families. But it's just getting the people and making sure that, you know, you have early voting, you have mail-in ballots, there are so many opportunities. But you I've seen in the past where people are rushing to run to vote. But that's the only opportunity that they have. And then they've moved the precinct or the voting, the polling place, and they don't have the time to go to the next one. So it's like, it behooves us to make sure that we are educating, educating people, the importance of that, and every language. So that way, you know, when a person is sitting before them, they could hold them accountable, and they should hold us accountable. You know, they put us in office to do a job, and we need to be doing our job. If we're not, then we don't need to be there. And if I was not doing my job, or if I felt like I was not doing my job, I'd quit today. But I know that I have a bigger calling to be there to make sure that the job is done. And I will fight to make sure that that stays. Yeah.
Interviewer: I want to use this opportunity to allow you to talk directly to your voting district and tell them anything that you want to say to encourage them to vote for you and to get out there. And yeah, anything that you have left to say to them.
Debbie Jordan: I'm Debbie Jordan, and I am running for re-election. And early voting starts August the 8th. And so that's your time to go to your any polling place that you would like to go to. But I think it's really important that you pick a person who understands the community, understands the system. They're not going to, they're not beholden to anybody. It is, they're beholden to the public, the people. And I think that is what is really important. So when you're looking and you're doing your research, and again, I'm always available. I would never not say that I would not be available. And to me, it's very important that we are present and that we have a purpose. So I wake up with a purpose, and that is to do what's right. And I think that it is it behooves all of us to make sure that we are putting the right people in place, regardless of what the craziness that other people are saying about them, you know, who shows up. I mean, we are a society where we see people, we know who they are. And we just have to have the courage to do what is right and to make our voices heard. So but thank you so much for this opportunity. I really enjoyed being here with you. And I appreciate it very much. Thank you.

Carline Saintilus — interview transcript

Carline Saintilus, a District 5 challenger, former teacher, and real-estate professional from the East Zone (Lehigh Acres and surrounding areas), focuses on closing achievement gaps in a majority-minority community where English is often not the primary language. She cites low algebra pass rates and calls for high-dosage tutoring, summer support, restored ESE/IEP services, better teacher pay and retention, and an independent forensic audit of the district's deficit. She also stresses parental involvement and community accountability.

Carline Saintilus: Hi, I'm Carline Saintilus. I am running for Lee County School Board District 5. District 5 is more of the East Zone, and that comprises of Lehigh Acres, Alva, Olga, North Fort, part of North Fort Myers, rather, Moore Shores, and Buckingham.
Interviewer: That seems like a really critical area.
Carline Saintilus: It's very critical, and it's a very large area, to be quite honest with you. We are a majority, minority populated area. I'd say about 49% of the area is Hispanic or Latino, and the other 51% comprises of people from different parts of the world. And it's a very unique community. I mean, you meet all kinds of people from different walks of life, and you learn about different cultures, and all of the things. So it's a very special place.
Interviewer: That's awesome. What makes you want to run for school board in that area?
Carline Saintilus: The East Zone has so much potential. I really feel that there is a Cinderella story from that area. You know, there's a running joke for many years that Lehigh is known as the redheaded stepchild, right? And it's time that that joke goes away. And I want to be able to be in a position to where I'm able to represent the teacher, the entire community, support teachers and staff, actually be an advocate for bringing proper resources for education for our students, because I believe all students deserve equal access to educational opportunities and resources, regardless of the zip code that they're in. I want to be able to be accountable to the overall community of taxpayers, because the trust is broken between the community and the district. And so I want to be that person. I'm from the area. I know the struggles of the area. I am a product of the public school. And so, and I'm a former teacher. So I look, and I'm a parent. So I come, you know, being in education, and with my background as, as a child, the eldest of five kids to a Haitian immigrant family, you know, one of the, our foundations and our pillars is education, right? And so my parents beat that in me and I beat it in my kids. And so we were, you know, we knew, and we were products of education being one of the catalysts to opening doors to opportunity for us. And so because I know the importance of having a good and proper education, I want to be able to be that person, that vessel to ensure that the children in my community are properly educated and not even, you know, more so than that. I work also in the, in the real estate industry. And I know that property value directly correlates with how a school is performing in a community. And if a school is not properly performing, performing, the area isn't really in high demand. So the values go down. We don't have enough equity in our property. We need to be able to do that. And so I want it to be an overall win for the entire community. And we need to stop the cycle of issuing diplomas to students who can't even complete a college application for enrollment. That has to stop. It really, for me, it makes no sense that a student should have to graduate high school and then go over into college or university and take remedial classes. That needs to stop. And that is the cycle that has been being repeated over and over and over again for several years in, and majority of those students come from district five. So we have to stop that.
Interviewer: That's interesting. So would you say that the metric is getting, that's just the graduation rate rather than what is success in graduation?
Carline Saintilus: Yes, correct. And it's all in how you define the success, right?
Interviewer: Right.
Carline Saintilus: You can issue a diploma. That's great. But when you issue a diploma, how are we preparing these students for post high school, right? Whether they decide to go to college, off to the military, go into the career path or workforce, whichever path that they decide to choose, how are we preparing them for that? How are they going to be able to complete an online application for a job if they don't know how to read or if they're reading at a third grade or even below than that? So these are the things that is consistently happening. There are a couple of schools in my district, East Lee High School, as well as Lehigh Senior High School and students, the Algebra 1 test for the EOCs annually. They are in the bottom, I believe it's one sixth and one third in comparison to the state of Florida. So they're really at the bottom. One of the schools is, it's an 18% pass rate and the other school is a 9% pass rate. That's super low. And when you compare it to other schools within the same district that's operating under the same systems, same superintendent, same everything, you know, there's something systemically wrong. There's something systemically wrong. And so my belief is that this isn't a one size fit all. It shouldn't be a one size fit all system. We are, District 5 is a community that is, English is not the primary language for the majority of the population there. And so we need to understand the cultural differences and we need to be able to meet the families where they are. There's a financial aspect too. A majority of the families there are in survival mode. They're working multiple jobs, rubbing two nickels together to make ends meet. So the likelihood of them being present for their children's education is probably non-existent. And so what happens is then it creates other issues, behavioral problems, chronic absenteeism. And then it travels into the classroom. Then it becomes disruptive to teaching time. Teachers aren't able to teach because they're constantly, you know, intervening for behavioral problems. And then the teacher then is already overworked, underpaid, undervalued, you know, the name, you name it, they're experiencing it. And so it takes away from lesson planning. It takes away from actually teaching a lesson to the other students who want to learn. I mean, it just, it just, it's a domino effect. And so this, what I want to do, because I understand my community, I'm in tune with my community. I understand the needs of my community. I want to be able to bring that perspective to the board. And, and not only that, you know, to offer, to bring the resources and advocate for the resources to help close the achievement gap, to help, um, uh, reverse the chronic absenteeism, to offer additional, uh, achievement or academic support to, for the students, whether it be high dosage tutoring after school, uh, or even during the summer times, because during the summer months, you know, that it becomes, it are, most of our students fall backwards because there are, there's, there's a break in between, um, partnering with organizations and faith-based, um, organizations as well to offer additional services, uh, for the students, uh, boys and girls clubs, anything that the, the, the district within reason, obviously to help close that achievement gap and help us progress in terms of academics. Yes. However, I also want to include that parents need to also take some responsibility in their children's education. The school district isn't a, a daycare center or a babysitting service, right? You can't just drop off your kids to school or to the bus stop and then expect the bus drivers to be accountable to babysit your children or even the teachers in the classroom. That is not the, the overall purpose for school. And, and so, and, and oftentimes I've come across parents who have that mindset and that is, that is a detrimental mindset for the school, the overall, the, they're doing a disservice to their children and they're doing a disservice to the actual school.
Interviewer: So I, I was born and raised here. My mom was a Filipino immigrant, um, in the eighties. And so I'm first generation here as well. And she was able to situate us in a neighborhood where I had access to really incredible schools. Um, that is increasingly less and less attainable.
Carline Saintilus: Absolutely.
Interviewer: Um, and so what I, what I'm curious about is I know that there is a way that they issue funding, um, based on school grades. Does it seem backwards to give the best schools the most funding? Like it almost, maybe it should be treated like the NFL draft or something, right? Like the worst team, right. You know, not to be however, but they get to pick first, right? Shouldn't, shouldn't more money go into there. What is your perspective on that? Especially considering from my research, the East area is experiencing the most growth in population versus the A school areas, maybe because of the hurricane, I'm really sure are decreasing in population. So can you talk about that a little bit?
Carline Saintilus: Well, the East, yes. And you're right. The East zone is a spirit has been experiencing a lot of growth over the last 10 years or so. And one of the main reasons is affordability, right? Property taxes are somewhat affordable, insurances, et cetera, et cetera. Right. And, but the schools are not performing at optimal level for whatever reason. And again, um, I, I attribute it to the fact that the population is, uh, English is not the primary language. So there, there are, there are, there's a factor of language, a language barrier. There are factors of, of a lack of parental involvement. Um, I mean, there, we also have the ESE population, the, their IEPs are not being met. And, and that for me is a very sensitive, um, touch point because, you know, we, we're, we're dealing with, with students, a very specialized, uh, uh, population of students that really need those support services and with the district, um, terminating these contracts and removing these support services, like the psychologists and social workers and, and trained professionals to help with the, uh, the IEP support services. You know, they, we were already lacking in those resources to begin with. And the fact that now that they've eliminated some more of those positions, we're taking probably 10 steps even more backwards. And so, yes, I, I believe that, yes, we should pour more resources into those areas, but I'm for being fair. I, I want, I, you know, in my journey through this campaign, I've come across many teachers and many different schools, school, school staff, um, janitors, bus drivers, you name it. I've, I've, I've spoken to just about everyone, including parents. And one of the common theme that I might take away from everyone is there's a lack of unity. And so we need to be able to be one because we all have a common goal and that is to educate our children and to make our community better for all of us to benefit from it. And so, because there is a lack of, uh, a lack of unity, um, I'm not in favor of schools, pitting teachers and, and, and educational professionals against one another. Whereas, you know, with, uh, offering bonuses or additional incentives to a certain criteria of teachers versus another, it's not in my opinion, fair. Um, teachers are as a former teacher, it's, it's a very noble profession. Obviously. I don't think any one of us, you know, you, you teach because you love, that's the bottom line. You're not rich at all. I don't know a teacher that is a millionaire. I really don't, you know, and, and they're rich in other resources, but in terms of finances, absolutely not. And so if, if there's going to be a raise and, and one of the things that I will, um, advocate for is to, uh, properly compensate and give livable wages to good talent. We need to recruit really good talent. If we are supposed to be a world-class school system, we need world-class employees. And in order to get world-class employees, we need to be able to pay them proper living wages. Why is it that Collier County is doing so much better than us? Why is it that Charlotte County is doing so much better with, uh, with teacher retention? There's a serious revolving door issue here. There are teachers. I've, I, I've met teachers. I met a teacher last year. Uh, I met her at an event and she shared with me that, and this was her 10th year. She said during her fifth year, they told her that she would receive a bonus. She fifth year came around, they pushed the goalposts back and told her wait till 10 year, year 10 comes in 2025. She's like, Hey, I made it to year 10. Where's my bonus? She didn't get that bonus. Yeah. And so her morale is literally gone. That's a decade. She's yeah. And so she, she feels deceived and she actually shared with me that she's contemplating leaving the profession altogether. And just in my encounter with this teacher during that time, I just picked up so much good energy and I, and she's an elementary school teacher in my district rep, um, um, no less. And, and I see the love and, and, and just the passion for education as she had. And the fact that she's leaving because she's, she was deceived by the school district. It's really heartbreaking, you know, and, and we need to stop that. It has to stop because we lose really good talent. District five is very, it's a very critical area and we cannot afford to lose good talent. We need to bring in good talent, keep the good talent, treat the staff, right. Uh, I, I'm, I'm, I, my heart is for people. I want to definitely, and always, uh, advocate for them, stand up for them, support them. Um, and, and, and on, you know, in my line of work, I, um, I do something every quarter for my staff. We go to, I get them a spa package to a resort. They need to rejuvenate because they put in 40, 50 hours a week at work. And we have to take that. And I'm not saying that that's what the district needs to do, but if you pour into your people, you get the best out of them. And you cannot expect a teacher or a staff member to show up to work and, and give their all in a classroom or outside of the classroom. And then you're not really pouring into them. That math ain't math. Not for me at least. And so I definitely want to be able to be that person to stand up for them and, and, and support them. And, and just, you know, because if, if the teachers are performing well, our students will perform well, they, they will, you know, the, it's a transference of energy, you know? So.
Interviewer: Okay. So here's the big question, right? We're the, the huge topic for everyone is we're in this huge deficit, right? And those are amazing goals to have. The realities of the budget are, are another thing. Where do you see the capacity for, for the district to be able to invest at that level in teachers, but to also in tandem, you know, sort of close that gap on that, that massive budget deficit that we've got going on that has happened operationally.
Carline Saintilus: Well, what I, what I believe needs to be done initially is an independent audit, a forensic audit. Um, I, I read not too long ago that, the, the, um, the district was aware of this deficit. And so if the district was aware of this deficit, why wasn't it caught when you were first made aware of it? Why did you, I guess, for lack of a better term, ignore it, right? Um, so that, that's poor stewardship in my opinion, and it should not have been ignored because you ignored it to the point where it's now a, to the tune of 90, 94 million dollars. And, and so then you have to essentially pull $47, 47 million, 46 million actually from the capital, um, funds over to the general budget in order to fund that. But we're still $47 million in the hole. But to make up for that, you terminate nearly 500 positions. So what, what happens in August when school's back in session? So now we, we were already dealing with overcrowded classrooms. So now we're going to, with, with teachers that had 40 plus students in their classrooms. So now we're going to have what, 60 students per classroom now. And we're going to be without teachers, certified teachers. We're going to be bringing in guest teachers. And then, so now this is a vicious cycle that will continuously repeat itself. So I am all in favor of, and we'll all, we'll advocate for an independent forensic audit. We need to find out where and how this $47 million deficit started and, um, make some adjustments to, to close that gap and, and tighten our belts because, and it's just like with your budget or my budget, if we see that we're, you know, we're, we're going, we're, we're splurging too much. We have to tighten our belts. No more dinner, you know, the fancy dinner at five-star restaurants and all of those things. We just have to tighten our belts until we are in a good position. I live within my budget and in the, in the work that I do, I have to be within a budget. I cannot go outside of my budget. And if it means that I have to not travel to Hawaii for two years and, and save monies and replenish my, my accounts for a rainy day, I will do it. And, and that's what we always need to do. I, I, you know, um, I know plenty of, of people who live within their means or live below their means and, and, you know, we're fine. We're just fine.
Interviewer: Yeah. It seems like managing budget and the, the fixes that in your view need to happen for the Lee County School District might be a matter of priorities. And it seems to me at least that your heart is in the place of supporting the teachers and supporting the students and supporting the families that are inside your district.
Carline Saintilus: Absolutely.
Interviewer: Um, we've got about four minutes left. I know that kind of, it flies by. We're having fun. But, but what would you like to tell the parents and the families in your district?
Carline Saintilus: Oh my gosh. I don't even know where to start there. There are, there's a myriad of issues that need to be addressed and, and, and we need to start moving the needle towards progress in, in the district. I am not a miracle worker. I am someone who actually cares about my community. And I want to see my community progress towards better. Uh, as I said before, I see Lehigh and the East zone. We have a Cinderella story and, and there is an opportunity for us to progress and just become better, a more thriving community for our children, because there's so much potential out there. And, you know, the, the term redheaded stepchild, yeah, it's cute, but it needs to go away. Uh, I do intend to be that person who is still present in my community. You will always catch me at Publix. You will always catch me at, at Walgreens. I am accessible. I am the, the girl next door. I am not someone who will hide. I take accountability, hold me accountable. If something is wrong, I won't make any promises that I can't, I don't intend on keeping, keeping, um, when I, I mean what I say, and I say what I mean, I want the children of this, of my community and the entire county to be a world-class system. At one point, Lee County was ranked eight, eighth out of 10 in the top 10 counties within the state. Now we're, we're, we're now nine. And at some point, you know, we should not be moving lower in the ranks. We should be moving up in the ranks. And so we need to have better leadership in order to get, to have us progress to, so that we can move up the ranks instead of going down in the ranks. I am Carline Saintilus and I am your candidate for Lee County School Board District 5. You can look me up. I am on social, social media, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok, Carline Saintilus. And my website is voteststtillis.sbd5.com.

India Palencia V2 — interview transcript

India Palencia, a District 6 challenger, is a parent of three public-school children, a substitute teacher, community advocate, and former telecommunications retail manager who says a fight to relocate an unsafe bus stop drew her into advocacy. She discusses the district's roughly $92 million deficit, budget transparency and a forensic audit, spending on lobbyists and mailers, support for teachers and paraprofessionals, class sizes, mental-health staffing, community advisory boards, and accountability.

India Palencia: So my name is India Palencia. I'm running for the Lee County School Board District 6, which is just the fancy way of saying everyone in Lee County will see me on their ballot. So if you live in Lee County, I'll be on the ballot.
Interviewer: So tell me why you're more of an advocate in your approach.
India Palencia: Yeah, I approach how I'm doing this very differently because I've been a community advocate for many years. So I just come from that mindset. I see things a little differently and I approach things a little different, a little more of an open book in a sense because of that, because I'm not afraid to just say what I think and say what's on my mind because I've been doing it for years. And I just operate under the premise that like if you say something in public, you shouldn't be afraid of what you've said. If you say it, stand 10 toes down on it.
Interviewer: So why are you running?
India Palencia: Oh, that's kind of a loaded question. It was a years long process that led me to getting fed up is really what happened. So I mentioned I was an advocate. I got sucked into the advocacy world, like not on purpose. So I have three kids. They're in our public schools. At the time, my twins were very, very tiny. They were babies. But my oldest was starting, I think it was kindergarten. And we had in our community a very unsafe bus stop. The HOA had posted on the Facebook page saying, hey, we've tried to get this bus stop moved and the district's ignoring us. Can a parent call? Because they thought, well, they weren't being heard because they were like old retirees or something. So I thought, oh, sure. I'm a parent. My kid's not on the bus, but this can't be too hard. I'll just call on down there. They'll see that it's an unsafe bus stop and they'll move it. And yeah, that was a really naive view of things because I got hung up on. And when I first called, I was told no and hung up on and then I called right back. I was like, no, you don't hang up on me. And that just started like this eight month fight with our school district to get a bus stop moved. I mean, we had media out at our community. We were at every school board meeting. We had transportation review committee hearings. We were talking to board members. We were getting, you know, local officials to support us. We were talking to the Lee County Sheriff's Office and the Fort Myers Police Department and really just fighting this. And I start that's how this all started. And in going to the school board meetings, I started hearing things that were concerning, like as a parent and a community member. When you see a teacher walk down to the podium and she's weeping because she's having to go to Harry Chapin Food Bank to get food for her kids. Not her. She's going without because she can't afford to put food on the table. It makes you go, what's going on? Like what is happening? And my background, so I worked for telecommunications retail for 10 years. I ran, you know, retail locations on the east coast of Florida, multimillion dollar business. So my first instinct was to say, well, let me look at their budget and see what's happening. And I'll make some suggestions and maybe they'll hear those suggestions and make some changes. Well, there was no budget to be found. Yeah, so you can find budgets like line item budgets for the schools. But if you wanted to see a line item budget for the district, Godspeed. It's not there. You can't drill down and see how much they're spending on cell phone service or pens or anything like that. Can't find it. You'll find chunked out budgets. So that was like my big red flag. So I knew at that point that I needed to pay closer attention. And that's how I got on the advocacy road. What caused me to decide to finally run is I had been told for years, oh, you should run for office. And I would joke and go, no, crazy people do that. And I'm not crazy. I just go to the board meetings and I talk about what they should change. And I would be frustrated. And they had gone from two meetings a month down to one. So my three minutes had been more like two minutes if I was lucky, you know, and one minute in most cases to say what you had to say. And there was one meeting in particular. And I went up to this podium to speak. And I was fighting against them spending money on lobbyists. Right? Because when you're in debt, buy a lobbyist, right? So I went up there and I looked up at the dais while I was talking. And it looked like a board member was asleep. There were two that were like talking to each other. I don't know what about. The rest were on their phone. There were only two people looking up at me. It was Debbie Jordan and Melissa Giovenelli. And everybody else was like ignoring it. And it wasn't just me. It was everyone who got up to speak. And I was like, yeah, these people really just don't care. And that was kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back. I went home and was doing my usual complaining routines. And my husband, and if anyone knows my husband, if you see him, count yourself lucky. Okay? He's a very reserved and quiet kind of guy. So when he said to me, I think you should run, it really hit home with me because I knew that that was going to put him out of his comfort zone. But he was saying it, you know. And so it really hit home with me. And after hearing it from people who I trusted and respected, I was like, okay, maybe I will do this. And that's what got me to run. And I'm just a mom and a community member who got sick of being ignored. And, you know, you hear the phrase, what radicalized you? They did.
Interviewer: It's funny. It's... I feel like that's more common than people realize is that people just get kind of shoved down and shoved into a corner and put off. And then they just sort of like are like enough is enough. And I love that story. It's very compelling. And, okay, so we've been made aware of a lot of the issues, right? Like not having a budget is kind of wild. The spending seems to be, at least based on the research that I've seen and done, it seems to be a little out of control. The support for teachers is not necessarily there. How do you, as a candidate, anticipate, because I'm sure we will anticipate and there will be like the realities of what we can actually do. How do you anticipate being able to go in and bridge these gaps between like lack of teacher support and huge budget deficits? Because some people would say those are at odds things.
India Palencia: Right. They are in a sense, but they're also in the same vein, right? So I think the first thing that has to happen is you cannot fix a problem until you face it. Point blank. If you don't know where your money is going, you can't redirect it to solve an issue. So we have to have a full forensic audit done. Not by like our internal auditor, not by the local people. It has to be somebody, hopefully like out of state to come in and do a full forensic audit. Forensic means it's legally binding. Like it's a legal document and it needs to be published to the public so the public can see where every single penny has gone. It needs to be easy to understand and easy to use, which they post a lot of different kinds of budgets online. If you find them, it's not easy to use them. So in like one of the most recent board workshops, they were talking about, oh yeah, we posted the budgets online. And even the board members sitting up there were like trying to find it. And they're like, yeah, I can't find it. So like when we hide these things, that's another, you have to ask that question. Why? Why are we hiding it? Why are we making it so hard? To be like the first thing at the top of like the splash page. Like here's our budget. Like check it out. Right? So we have to know where the money is going. So once we know where it's going, we can start making very specific judicious decisions on how to get that money redirected back to our classrooms. Now, having been in board meetings, I have things right off the top of my head that go, we don't need that. Like over a quarter of a million dollars on lobbyists. Like that is just silly. I've never understood why we're spending money on that. We should not be renewing those contracts. We have two government relations employees, seven elected board members, and an elected superintendent. That is nine people who can lobby. So to me, to spend another quarter of a million dollars for three more, wasteful. And when I, I just, every time I see these things come up on the board meetings and for approval, my brain immediately goes to how many teachers is that? How many paraprofessionals is that? Immediately. Because I, I'm a substitute teacher. So I'm in our classrooms. I see exactly how this plays out when we don't have the support. I've experienced it firsthand. It is a danger. Not just to our teachers and our, our staff, to our kids. Because they're the ones who ultimately pay the price for this mismanagement. And so when I see these things come up, my brain immediately starts going, okay, I know a new teacher is $54,500. We've got over a quarter of a million dollars. Oh my gosh. And I know I can usually get like two paraprofessionals for the cost of one teacher. Oh my gosh. Like I immediately go like that. When I see pictures of a human resources department during the holidays, this is a happy holidays from our human resources department. They can barely fit in the board room. My brain immediately starts counting. And I thought I lost track at like 70 something because it was so tiny. I'm like counting all the people. And I think, why do we need that many people in our human resources department for our school district? I mean, I worked for a Fortune 500 company that had a tenth of that for an entire nine state region. It just doesn't make any sense. We're not making, you know, they call themselves conservatives. I don't know what definition of conservative they've read. But they're not making conservative financial decisions by any stretch of the imagination. And that has an impact. There are impacts to our community when they do that. And that's how we lose 475 educators and arts programs and special needs support. That's how we lose it. Because we're doing stupid stuff with our money. Yeah.
Interviewer: It's weird to think that there are board members that truly believe either in message alone or in themselves that they are upholding the best for the students. And this is only my personal opinion. So everybody gets an opinion, right? Yeah. It's super interesting to me to watch the belief that truly what is in the best interest of the students and the community at large is being done while the deficit continues to climb, but while the teacher feedback is extremely not good. What are some of the things that you're hearing from the teachers and being a substitute teacher yourself that you've experienced?
India Palencia: I mean, it's not good. So teachers need support staff in order to do what is being asked of them. And teachers are being asked to do so much more than they've ever had to do before. And I'm not talking like over the past 10 or 20 years. I'm talking over the past three to five years. We've more than doubled the teacher workload. Not doubled their money. That's for sure. Can't pay them anymore, right? We have more than doubled their workload. We've asked things of them that they have not even been trained to do. And we have not provided any more support for them. So when we see our educational outcomes suffering for that, it's directly related to each other. So teachers, here's just to paint a picture, right? Teachers have seen increased class sizes. The state actually has recommended class sizes. Now, if there's anything that the infrastructure has done is they have decided to lobby for things like not being fined when they go over class sizes. Or making sure that the fines are low. So nowadays they don't even get fined if they're over the suggested class sizes. There's no repercussions when they go over the suggested class sizes. None at all. So why honor them, right? Why not? Stuff 40 high schoolers into a classroom because you can with one teacher, right? That's a lot. In the classroom that I did a long-term sub-in, I did almost for the first nine weeks of school, I had 23 kindergartners. So if anybody's ever been in a room full of five and six-year-olds, 23 is a lot, right? I've got two of them in my house. And I thought, I mean, how bad can it be? Oh my gosh, let me tell you. It can be alarming because all of them have a very different personality. They all learn differently. They all need different needs. And that's where we run into issues where we don't have support. When you have kids who need that extra support, they need behavioral health, mental health, or something like that. We don't have the resources in our schools to help those kids until maybe nine weeks into the school year or more. So the kid suffers, their education suffers because we're having behavioral issues in our classroom. All of the other 22 kids suffer because their education is being disrupted. I mean, my first Friday, I got beat up by a five-year-old. Yeah, and I had to wait for what felt like forever because our poor dean of students is one person running around a whole school where that situation is happening in multiple classrooms. If we had a paraprofessional in every classroom, that dean of students would be available for the most severe issues, and the paraprofessional would be able to assist in a behavioral situation. But we don't have those resources, and we've eliminated mental health professionals across our district. So now you have mental health professionals covering multiple schools. So when you have a kid who needs a mental health professional, godspeed, good luck, because when will they get to get to your school? And then they have a case overload. They get burnout, and that's what happens, and that's why teachers leave, and that's why mental health professionals and paraprofessionals leave. They don't just even leave our school district. They leave the profession because they were burnt out. So we don't just ruin it for Lee County. We ruin it for our whole state, and we ruin it for our country because we burnt somebody out who had a passion enough to go to school for it, right, and learn how to do it and start working in that field. And we burn them out because we don't provide the resources that they need to be effective in their job.
Interviewer: Oof. Yeah. It's awful. It's really intense to think about it because as a school district at large, I would think it would be the goal for them to support children's dreams and to getting educated and becoming the professionals that they want to be. So to know that the system is actually breaking down its own, you know, at one point maybe students that had those big dreams, that's super discouraging.
India Palencia: Yeah. It's self-cannibalizing, basically. And so when you see the investment in other places, you think, you're only hurting us. So then they wonder why parents are pulling kids from the public school system. I mean, I've had teachers tell me, as a substitute teacher, you should take your kids to private school. And that is the most heartbreaking thing to hear. I am, I love public schools. I'm a public school kid. I believe in the beauty that public school promises. I think it's like the ultimate American dream, the public school system. Because it promises that no matter where you're from, how much money your parents make, we're going to give you the same education that we give any other kid in our country. And I think that is the, like, base of the American dream, right, is opportunity. Give them boots to pull the straps, right? So when you see that we're not giving a full boot, like it's missing a sole of the shoe, well, that's not really going to work out very well. And we don't give our kids that level playing field. And, I mean, statistically, parents will pull their kids out of our public schools, but they come back. Because public schools have to service every kid, no matter what. We don't get to say, hey, we don't have the resources for your autistic child. So you can waive your right to have those resources if you want to keep them in our school. That's not how public schools operate. That's how the other schools operate. So we have to help everyone. And that's what is great about public schools. I don't like to even say we have to. We get to. We have that honor of making sure that every kid, no matter their circumstances, gets a quality public education. So when you see them leaving, you have to ask why. No $64,000 mailing out to a bunch of retired people with no kids in our school district is going to solve that problem. Of course, we need to be competitive with the school choice options. But we cannot be competitive if we don't invest in the classroom. So it would be one thing if we had, like, thriving classrooms, thriving education system, and then they were like, let's get some lobbyists to put some icing on the cake. That's a whole different situation. But we have teachers barely keeping their heads above water. Students who are so many years behind, it seems like it will never catch up. And they're like, let's go get some lobbyists. And while we're at it, let's take a trip to D.C. Why not, right? Like, what are you thinking? And I think of it, again, I'm a mom, right? I was a stay-at-home mom for many years. And it was one of the hardest jobs I have ever worked. And I've been working since I was 11. And I've done some hard jobs. And as a stay-at-home mom, I managed our home budget, right? And sometimes you have to make difficult decisions when you're a one-income family. And so you say, well, what are the luxuries that we have? Oh, well, my $40 Peloton membership, I think, is going to have to go, right? There's one tank of gas I got, right? Because I cut out my Peloton membership. Like, you have to say, what are the luxuries? What are those things? Yeah, they're great. It's nice. It's lovely to be able to ride the Peloton bike at home, right? Maybe I actually have to sell that Peloton bike because we need that money. Maybe we have to trade in our vehicle and get an affordable vehicle that's paid off so that I don't have a monthly car payment so that I can afford what I need to afford for my kids and my family, right? You have to make those kinds of hard decisions because you have to keep the priority on your family. The schools, the priority should be the schools. But it seems we have priority on those luxuries, on the pretty, shiny things that seem great. And, yeah, I agree. Our superintendent should be able to make difficult decisions. I 100% agree with our superintendent. I just don't think we're making difficult decisions. I think we're making wrong decisions.
Interviewer: I think that makes a ton of sense. I am a product of Lee County Public Schools and a huge advocate for them. I had an amazing educational experience with them. And in spite of being a single mom that is an entrepreneur that barely has any time, that often grapples with those same budgetary decisions, I'm considered pulling my kids out of school, even though they're at a great school. But there are ways that my son doesn't get, you know, everything that he needs just from, like, a curriculum challenge perspective, which I have gotten so much more insight on just sitting in this room to know the complexities that are serving all of the children that I can then bring back to him. But having all of that and still saying, I might take that voucher and I might try to homeschool my kid because it doesn't, like, and I'm in support of the Lee County's public school system. And I'm in a great district. So for me to be considering that, it has to be pretty bad. I can't even imagine parents that are dealing with special needs children or just, like, any number of the issues that they're dealing with. So really interesting perspective from you on that. And I think that it's very unique. And I love the comparison of household budgetary expenses and making hard decisions because I don't know that the people that are sitting on the school board now have the same perspective or life that people that have to do that are. And I think one of my biggest takeaways of all these interviews is people that actually live inside the public school district and live the kind of lives that the families inside the Lee County Public School District are living are the people that can make the best decisions.
India Palencia: Yeah, I think that's a very valid point to make. I don't really know their perspectives, but I can speak to mine. You know, like, I grew up in a house where we were just really poor. Like, we didn't have a lot of money. And I can instantly, when I talk to people and they tell me their views, I can immediately suss out, like, you have never actually been poor, have you? Like, because I grew up in a family where we had to make decisions that we didn't have a home phone and we had no cable or anything. Um, we never purchased a computer. My mom had one at her business when she opened up her business. Uh, I did my high school papers on a typewriter because that's the kind of money we had, you know? And my parents were always very open about what they were able to do for us and what they were not able to do for us. And I learned a lot about what their budgeting process was like. I remember my dad sitting down at, like, the kitchen table and, like, looking at the checkbook and balancing the checkbook and, like, talking me through how he had to pay bills and how some bills we couldn't afford. You know, and we all worked. Like, I told you I started working at 11 years old. It wasn't because I thought it was fun. It was because we needed money in our house. You know, so we, if we wanted to have something as a kid, go out and work for it and earn it. And we learned at an early age how to budget. And I'm grateful for the challenges of that because it made me a lot stronger as an adult, a lot more appreciative of the things that I did earn and the money that I was able to earn in my career. And it made me a lot smarter with my financial decisions. And I was also able, when I screwed up, I was able to figure out how to get out of it real quick because I saw how to do it, how to manage money and how to be lean on a budget. And I also have seen in my life, because of working hard, what it's like to have extra money. And you're like, oh, my God, I don't, that's not for a bill. That's not for food. That's not for, like, that it literally has no home. What do I do now? Oh, my gosh, I can get something that I've wanted to get, right? Like, so I've seen how these things play out. And when I talk to some people, I'm like, they must have never had that experience, right? So I hear comments sometimes like, um, like we shouldn't provide lunch for all kids. I mean, I get it. You want to cut some money. I can tell you that as a poor kid who lived on reduced lunches, right? There were kids in my school whose families didn't qualify for the reduced lunches because they made more money. And I got picked on because I was a free lunch kid. Like, I got beat up, man. I got beat up in school because I was a free lunch kid and dirt poor. Who cared about that kid, right? And then when we got to reduced lunches, oh, you think you're cool now because you're on reduced lunches? And it was, like, always a thing to pick up. So I understand the premise of saying, oh, well, you know, if people are making more money, we shouldn't be paying for their kids' lunch. But I don't think they understand how that plays out in a kid's world and how kids are othered because of that. So I think there's plenty of other places in our budget that we can look to cut before we do that, you know? Like, if things are real bad, that's on the table, right? But I think, again, lobbyists and $64,000 mailers are standing in our way of silliness like that, right? So you have to come at it from that perspective. And if you have people who have that, like, lean perspective, it gives a new, like, view of how they're doing things.
Interviewer: Yeah. And honestly, I consider myself someone that does have a lean perspective. But I also am someone that understands how a child's metabolic health contributes to how they show up in the classroom and how their brain can learn, too. And I'm also someone that has struggled enough with her budget where I've been, like, you know, shuffling around to put food on the table for my kids. So I don't know that I'll ever, even as someone that's lean in my budgetary ideals, ever be like, free lunch should be taken away.
India Palencia: No. I love that. I think it needs to stay. And I know this is not my podcast episode, but I just know. So it's a shocking thing when I hear it. It is. And I understand where it comes from. I do. And I respect the idea, of course, of here's an idea. Here's how we can save some money. But I think that there are other places we can go to first before we get there.
Interviewer: Without a doubt. You know, I've heard stories of embroidered polo shirts and marketing companies and consultants. And, like, I think that there are lots of places and opportunities to cut that budget if that budget exists, which apparently right now.
India Palencia: I would love to see it. I would love to. I honestly do. I would like to see where we're at. Because, again, you can't fix the problem until you face it. And, like, in any household budget, you hear stories about people just going wild and running up credit. And it's because they don't even look at their bank accounts, right? Like, there are people who – like, I follow Dave Ramsey, right? And you'll hear people call into his show. And they're like, I just don't look at my bank account. And I don't look at my credit cards until it's bad. Well, that's how it gets bad, you know, because you're not looking at it. And I know it can seem very daunting and overwhelming to look at the ugly. But you have to. Like, you have to look at the ugly. And you have to say, oh, gosh, we've really been making some bad decisions. You have to own those decisions and say these were not good financial choices. We screwed up, right? So here's how we're going to fix it going forward. We're not going to order Uber Eats six nights a week. We are not going to have gym memberships where we don't even go to the gym. We are not going to – like, you have to say we're not going to do these things because those are damaging to our budget. And that's how we get into this mess. So we are going to regroup. We're not going to use credit cards. We're going to cut them up, right? And we're going to pay those off because we're not going to that gym anymore. And we're not Uber eating. So we'll have that money to pay off that debt. And then once we pay off that debt, what is the plan to do with that money so that we don't find ourselves back in this dumb, dumb position where we can't afford to live? And so you have – the district needs to do that. Government in general needs to do that. We need to say how do we cut back, redivert the funds, and then make sure we're not in this mess again. And that's what I'm missing when I go to the school board workshops or the school board meetings. I'm missing that piece. In fact, I'm concerned. Like, with this $92 million deficit, their CFO is saying this is not going to go away anytime soon. And I think people are missing that piece. Like, they hear $92 million. They hear the cuts that were made. They hear that they moved over from the capital budget to cover it. We're not hearing that they expect to continue to have this debt and continue to have this problem. And my question to that is why? Why aren't we making severe enough changes so that this stops today and we don't end up here next year or the year after or the year after? And this is something I've seen coming as well. I've seen these projections where they're like, every other school district is losing kids, but we're not. How long did you think that was going to happen? You saw the trends of every school here in the state of Florida and you thought you were special. You thought you were special? Come on, man. So, to me, there's been no accountability for the poor decisions. I don't know any job that anyone on this earth can work and lose $92 million and be completely okay and have other people fired because of it. Like, are you kidding me? So, bad decisions were made, yes. But where have we made the accountability and what are we changing so that next year we're not having this conversation, which I fully expect to be happening next year? 100%. I'm here to predict it now. Everyone in the world. You heard it here first. There will be a deficit next year that they'll pretend they'll be like, what? Oh, my God. And it's because they didn't make any changes. They just band-aided it.
Interviewer: So, moving forward, what does full transparency and accountability look like for the new school board that gets elected? And if you are elected, what would you like to do differently?
India Palencia: So, that's a lot of pieces. It's a lot of things because there's got to be transparency and accountability in many realms, right? So, financially, I talked about doing the full forensic audit. And then I think it's a full review of every single contract that we have, every single contractor that we're doing business with, and finding where do we need to make changes, right? That has to happen. And that cannot happen solely by the board. So, we need to bring back something that was eliminated, which is these community advisory boards. So, they got rid of all of those except for, like, back and sack. And we have one advisory committee in place to watch, the ISOC, to watch over the hafs and sales tax. That's it. Years ago, we used to have advisory committees. So, we have to bring those back, and they have to be different than they were before. Used to be it was just, like, your buddies that you got put on the board. We need subject matter experts, real community members who are invested in making true change. And I've met so many on the campaign trial that give me hope that there are people in our community who have no reason to be invested in our public schools but are. And I think that's a wonderful thing. And we need to engage those people on these committees to help make informed decisions. Because there are only seven board members, and there's a lot of work to do. There really is. So, we have to engage the community in helping with that work and in helping communicate that, right? So, my opinion for board members, I've seen the city of Fort Myers do this, and I think that they're excellent communicators and open-door people. They have ward meetings. So, I live in Ward 6 with Darla Bonk. She always has a monthly ward meeting, and I've never understood why our board members don't have that. So, our board members should have district meetings, right? We have five different districts for the school board. We should have district meetings. And if you're an at-large candidate or at-large board member, you can rotate through and going to all of the other districts and talking to them, right? And in those meetings, they bring in staff from the city in the ward meetings. So, we can bring in staff from the district. And it cannot be this scripted town hall nonsense. It cannot be that way. It cannot be, submit your questions ahead of time. We'll answer the ones we like. And there is no follow-up. That's not how we have communication. That's not communication. We should have a conversation with our community. What's happening in this community? What are your concerns? What are your issues with your kids' schools? And what do we need to focus on? And what are your ideas to fix that? I mean, I can't tell you how many teachers, parents, community members who have offered up their ideas to me that have enlightened me so much because I don't have all the answers. I don't know all the things. Yeah, I'm really good at managing a budget, but I don't know curriculum particulars. So, when a teacher comes up to me and is like, hey, I have an idea to save the district five million dollars on ELA curriculum in the high school level. I'm like, what? Tell me more. That should be happening, right? We should be listening to the people doing the job. That's also transparency, right? When it comes to families, I've experienced this as myself. My son has been in two different schools and the communication styles with those schools are vastly different. And I won't say that one was superior than the other, but neither of them were the most impactful, I don't think. And I experience this in my own kids' school today. Like, there's an apathy among parents. And it's hard to engage parents and get them involved in their kids' school. And I know a lot of that is that our parents are working two and three jobs, right? And statistically, many of our families are single-parent households or single-grandparent households or single-aunt or uncle households or single-caretaker households. So, they are doing all of the things. So, we have to find a way to bridge that gap and make it easy for those families to be involved with their kids. Make it easy for the mom who works three and four jobs, who has their kid in before care and after care because of it, who when they go get their kid at after care right at six o'clock on the dot because they're running from their last job, and they come home and they're feeding their kid and they're still going to do some boss babe stuff at home after dinner. Something for them to fit in 15 minutes that's easy for them to engage with their kids and talk about the school day and talk about what they're learning. We need to do a better job at that. What that is, I don't even know because, again, I don't have the answers. But I want to hear from those parents and those families and say, what would work for your family to keep you engaged with your kid every day? Something you could do every day and a communication between you and the school and your kid because it's a partnership and kids don't thrive until it becomes a partnership, right? So, we have to do that and that will increase the transparency. And then, in general, with the community, the propaganda department's got to go, man. It's mind-boggling. It's almost like they're trying to piss everyone off. I don't understand how it happens or who's in control of it. I don't know. But it's bad, man. Like, the communication put out on social media is so out of touch with our community. Like, just so out of touch. So, we need people who are in touch with our community. The communication has to change. It can't be, oh, my gosh, we have to get rid of 475 educators and then you see the next day that they're having a hiring event. Like, what is going on, right? And so, we have this weird communication. That has to change. If we have to announce something that is real ugly, because let's not pretend that there's not going to be things that are controversial or things that not everybody's happy about. There's no world in which that exists, right? But we have to approach it from a very compassionate and human stance, being honest. Admitting our faults. Admitting why we have to make certain decisions. And communicating that clearly and openly. And being open to follow-up communication, right? Being open to saying, okay, we have this really hard decision we're having to make in our district. Whatever decision it is. We're going to have community town halls so that you guys can talk to us and maybe even just vent on us and tell us how mad you are about it, right? Having more than one board meeting a month would be great. I mean, my God, we pay them as much as an entry-level teacher. I don't understand why they have one meeting a month. It's insane to me. And then some of them are talking about going on Zoom. Are you kidding me? Why? Because we'd like to spend time with our families. And sometimes it falls on the day of a family birthday. Hello? Hi, friend. You did sign up for that. Like, when I decided to do this, I knew this was going to take time away from my family and kids. Like, yes. Mm-hmm. There's going to be times that you're going to have to miss. That's what people do in life. Like, I had my birthday last week and my husband was in Chicago for work. He missed my entire birthday. He flew in and landed, like, literally 45 minutes after my birthday ended. That's how life works. Like, we're just going to go celebrate it tonight. Like, get over it. Move on. Zoom in for my brother in Christ. No. So, like, those are the things that create that block to the transparency and communication. So, when you invite people in, when you allow people to say what they have to say, even when you disagree with it, even when you know what you're doing is the right thing, but you respect people in this community enough to listen to them and let them tell you their version and their side, that's going to go a long way. And you need to do that more often, not less. And you have to do it in earnest. So, that has to change. And those are the things I will be focusing on when I'm on the board.
Interviewer: The mics are suspended, but I want you to take it and drop it. A little bit. Okay. So, that was amazing. We'll say, you know, we'll do, like, the Jerry Springer final thought. What do you want to say to the voters of Lee County to encourage them to make the best change for parents, for teachers, for the students, and get more transparency and accountability?
India Palencia: So, I'll say this. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. For many years, we've been doing the same thing over and over again. We elect these establishment candidates. And I don't even want to say it's a partisan thing because it is not. There are people of different parties and then there's establishment people. And these establishment people are not invested in our community. They're invested in whatever it is. They're invested in power, money, a future career. I don't know. But it's not what they're running for. They're invested in something else. And this is just a stepping stone. So, our community has to start asking a serious question about the people that are running and if they're invested in our community. You have to say, does it make sense for someone to be on our board when their own children aren't even in our schools? That doesn't make any sense, right? They have different priorities. So, go do those priorities. It's fine. It's fine to have different views and different priorities. But right here is not the place for you, right? So, in any job, when somebody is interviewing, you have to find out if they're a match for that role. I hired many people in my last career. And there were times where the person sitting in front of me was very skilled, very intelligent, great, but not for the role. And I would tell them, this is just not the thing for you. And maybe they didn't like that, right? Because they had their heart set on it. But I would say, you're going to thank me later. This is a job that's going to make you miserable and you're not going to be as effective as you could be. And I think that voters in Lee County have to do that. They have to actually say, put the partisan politics aside, right? In fact, the people who encourage that, big red flag, right? The people who are coming out and trying to divide us because somebody registered as a Republican or somebody registered as a Democrat or a Libertarian or an Independent or an MPA, those are the people who are the problem, right? They're trying to divide us. And we see this without our country. We should be able to have a conversation no matter how we registered to vote, right? We should be able to respect each other as Americans no matter how we registered to vote, right? So when you see people dividing, that's your first red flag, right? And then you have to say, okay, are they the right person, the right fit for this job? Do they have the bandwidth to do it? Are they committed to doing the hard work? Are they the kind of person who can admit there's a problem, who can admit if they did something wrong? Are they the kind of person who can say, whoop, we screwed that up and let's fix it? And if they're not, that's not the kind of person we need in charge of our community because that's what a leader does. A leader assesses things. A leader makes decisions. And a leader, when wrong, will admit it and fix it. And so we see this cycle again where we just vote people in because, oh, they seem real nice. Oh, they're so pretty. They look real good, right? Oh, well, they're registered with my party, right? But are we really asking, is that person the best fit for the role? Maybe they're in a better role somewhere else, right? Maybe they need to go do something different that fits them better. But is it right for this? So that's what they have to ask themselves, the voters in Lee County. And I'll tell you, this is what I'm here for. I'm very passionate about public education. It means a lot to me and I'm invested in it. My three kids are in our public schools and to the teachers who told me because they love me that I should take my kids to private school, I said, never, never. I would never leave the public school system because I believe in it. And when you run away from something, it never gets fixed. It's the people who turncoat are turncoats. I am no turncoat. I believe in staying right here and fixing it, right? I mean, right? Like what kind of parent would you be if you just were like, oh, this is too hard. I'm out of here, right? But parents do it, right? So that's not the kind of person I am. When I find something I care about, I stick with it and I work my butt off. That's how I've been this campaign. I work my butt off this whole campaign. Before I came here, I was out canvassing in the heat for a few hours, right? So if you don't have somebody who's willing to do the work, you got to ask that. And I know that I am a hard worker. And I'll tell you this, man, I'll outwork anybody. I run circles around them. I've been doing it since I was 11. So I'm not ashamed to admit that. I may not be as educated as somebody or had the same experience, but I will outwork people tenfold. And that goes a long way. And it's served me well in life. So I think I am the best person for the job because of that. Not because of somebody who's not good enough or something, but I just think I'm better because I will work harder. And I will put my heart into it. So that's what I'll leave in the final thought. So that's what I'll leave in the final thought.

Chelsea Clarke — interview transcript

Chelsea Clarke, a Lee County School District English teacher and Fort Myers High School graduate now teaching Pre-IB English at her alma mater, offers a classroom perspective. She discusses cell-phone and technology distractions, large class sizes, staff layoffs, testing and progress monitoring, textbook and curriculum decisions, teacher pay and working a second job, union-related legislation, and whether teacher feedback reaches district leadership.

Interviewer: So, introduce yourself and tell me about your history with the Lee County School District.
Chelsea Clarke: So, my name is Chelsea Clarke, and I am a product of the Lee County School District. I was born in Estero, and I attended Three Oaks Elementary, and then Paul Lawrence Dunbar Middle School, and then Fort Myers High. And I went away for school for a few years, and then came back and worked and, you know, got myself through college at FSW and FGCU. And then in 2017, I became an English teacher. I taught at Paul Lawrence Dunbar Middle School for four and a half years, and then I left teaching for a few years. But, you know, my calling, I feel like, is really to be in a classroom and discussing literature with kids every day. So, two years ago, I went back and did the year at Island Coast High School, and now I am currently at our alma mater, Fort Myers High, as a pre-IB English teacher.
Interviewer: Oh, yay! I also went to Fort Myers High.
Chelsea Clarke: Hi! So, I am a product of the Lee County School District, and my experience was so good.
Interviewer: I know. Mine, too.
Chelsea Clarke: I think when we both went there, you know, Fort Myers High at the time was a top 100 high school in the country. And myself, as well as a lot of my friends, you know, we went to top 100 universities when we graduated. So, you know, being a product of such what I really felt like was a world-class public education system, you know, is part of the reason why I'm here today is I want to continue to make sure that kids have access to that education that myself and my friends had when we were growing up in this community.
Interviewer: Cool. So, I put out a call on social media for candidates, current board members, teachers, parents, anyone that wanted to talk about the state of the school district to come do it. And you were one of only two people that reached out to me that had teaching experience or was anything but a candidate, which our candidates have been amazing.
Chelsea Clarke: Yes.
Interviewer: And of those two, you're the only one here today.
Chelsea Clarke: Yeah. And I think, you know, some other people have spoken about this publicly before, but there is a lot of fear within the school district that if we speak out about our experiences, that there will be retribution of some sort. So I think lots of people don't want to make waves because they're worried about, you know, their own financial stability.
Interviewer: It's super unfortunate when you have to choose your livelihood over your opinions and beliefs.
Chelsea Clarke: And I mean, your community, right? I think, you know, teachers go into the profession because they want to make the world a better place and they want to be there for our youth. So oftentimes it's like, OK, well, if I do what's right by my students, it could hurt me personally. So we have to weigh that a lot in our profession in general, but especially in trying times like this where the education system seems to be in some type of transformative state, whether it may be for better or worse.
Interviewer: That's cool. I'm going to I'm going to be very careful with how I word everything and just put you in the best possible position as a teacher.
Chelsea Clarke: Of course, of course,
Interviewer: where have you had challenges as a teacher and where do you see opportunities? And this will probably be a very ongoing, long answer.
Chelsea Clarke: I'll try to be as succinct as possible. So I think teachers right off the bat, you know, technology is is a huge battle for us these days. And it's really something that was supposed to be a blessing. It was supposed to help us do our work quicker and easier and faster. And in some regards, it really does like having a Google Forms test that is self graded. You know, that could save hours on the back end for a teacher as opposed to hand grading a paper test. But where that really becomes challenging is that children developmentally cannot police themselves by and large when it comes to access to technology. So when you have a Chromebook in front of them all day, they're supposed to be on the Google Classroom or they're supposed to be like on a specific website doing research. And instead, they'll be on YouTube all day. And so you have kids who are at school for six hours, but they're not absorbing information because they're just clicking through YouTube videos. And we do have various systems like a program called Lightspeed where we can see what the kids are doing on their Chromebook. We can even block access to different websites, but it's very glitchy. So like sometimes you'll block access to everything, but like your Google Classroom and it'll block the Google Classroom. So it ends up taking a lot of time to try to combat those type of issues with the Chromebook alone. And then we have cell phones on top of that. So I know all parents or all teachers would really appreciate it if parents had some type of control over their kids cell phones. Because unless you have their social media app shut down, they're going to be on them at school. And they're going to hide them underneath their desk and they're going to ask them to go to the bathroom for 10 minutes. So parents on there could really, really help us police the cell phone issue by downloading those parental guidelines and making sure they don't have access to those distracting devices while they're on campus. Another really challenging thing has been classroom sizes. I think back in 2018, our school district realized that it was cheaper to pay the fine to the state of Florida for having overcrowded classrooms. So it's supposed to be like 18 for elementary school and 25 for secondary school. And I have had upwards of 200 students as an English teacher. So if you put this into perspective, if I assign a one-page essay and I can grade a one-page essay in three minutes to our state standardized rubric by 200 kids, that's going to be 40 hours of extra work for one assignment to grade. And if I don't grade it, then the kids aren't getting the feedback that they need to be better writers. So I think, you know, with a lot of the changes that we're seeing, especially when it comes to laying off three to four percent of our frontline, you know, instructional staff and paraprofessionals, our classroom sizes are going to go up. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about that. So, you know, this year I was pretty lucky. I only had 150 students, but throughout the district, especially in those, like, what we traditionally call Title I or low-income schools, or what they're now calling, like, high-risk four and three schools, they're going to have much higher student populations. So those classrooms are going to be really, really full. And it's very hard to give all students equal access to education. You know, our kids who have different learning disabilities and have different accommodations, or they might be an English as a second language learner, and they need extra help, you know, absorbing the material in a secondary language that isn't what they speak at home. And those kids are the first people who fall through the cracks when we start to have these big, you know, problems with simple staffing issues. And then lastly, I would say that teachers have really been facing, like, a lot of animosity from certain parts of the community. Like, this idea that teachers are indoctrinating kids is just, like, completely false. We don't have the time to do that. Like, everything we discuss in class has to be based off of the standards that we teach. It's very controlled. Like, all of our assignments are posted, like, in the Google Classroom for parents to see. All of the books that we read either come from, like, a state or district curriculum list. Like, so it's really hard to do kind of, like, a thankless job in lots of ways. And then to get pushed back in animosity and hate from the community just for being there and showing up and, you know, trying to educate the children in our community. Ooh. So that's a lot to unpack. But I figured we'd just start there and get it all out.
Interviewer: Well, it's really, it's, it's, I so appreciate you coming today because I, when we spoke earlier about this, I don't feel like I had a good enough perspective of what it means to be a Lee County School District teacher. And I, my eyes are wide open now. Um, and I've always sort of been collaborative with my kids' teachers. But, like, I think I'm just going to reach out proactively in front of every school year and be like, what do you need to be successful? Um, because I literally had no idea. And the, the thought in my head of people attacking teachers, and I've watched it, I've, I've not necessarily advocated for you guys. I've just been like, yeah, they seem mad about this thing. Um, but the thought of someone doing that to someone that is so, like, let's just be honest, underpaid, overworked, being tasked with more than they've ever been tasked with. And, and also then to get criticized as well. That's a really difficult position to be in.
Chelsea Clarke: Yeah. And I think that's kind of, um, an issue with our society at large. You know, I think the public education system kind of becomes like, uh, this mirror, almost like a canary in the coal mine for the rest of society. Because when society starts breaking down, the first places we're going to see it is in the education system. So we, we have a lot of issues with that as a society, I think, is that we just can't have conversations anymore without using ad hominem. You know, like, I can't tell you how many times on, on social media, when I'm, you know, looking at these posts about education. And I'd say, like, 70% of it is people just calling each other names. And, you know, we're not going to get anywhere. If we just sit around and call each other names, we need to actually talk about these complex issues and break them down and figure out, like, okay, where can we, um, you know, save money here? Or where could we, you know, do a better service to this group of population over here? Um, you know, it's, it's not simple. It's not black and white. Um, and there really, at the end of the day, is no right or wrong way to do things. As long as we're, you know, honoring our students and our families and our community and making sure that they can get the education that they deserve.
Interviewer: Uh, speaking of a canary in a coal mine, a little birdie.
Chelsea Clarke: We'll stick with the birdie.
Interviewer: Yes. The birdie thing. Um, a little birdie told me that you had a lot of amazing ideas when it came to transformation inside the school system, budgetary things, things like that. Um, I'm not going to ask you to lay those down, but I, I am interested in your perspective on more of an open door policy inside the district for teacher feedback and how that might be a huge catalyst for change.
Chelsea Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. So I think, um, we do take a lot of surveys. Uh, they send a survey every quarter and they ask really generic questions, um, that I don't really think. Give the district much of a feel on how their employees are really feeling in the building. And, um, you know, there's a lot of dichotomy. Like you could feel very safe and respected in your own, your own school. And, you know, like, you know, Fort Myers, it's, it's the legacy school, right? It's where everyone wants to be. Um, so, you know, my experience there is, is vastly different than it's been in other schools. Um, but I've been really fortunate to have, you know, very supportive admin who's always given me agency and who's always respected my ideas. Um, that isn't necessarily something that I feel past that administrative level. Um, and case in point, just, you know, we don't have to, to go into all of the details, but, um, as an English teacher, I've noticed that by and large for the last, really since no child left behind. Right. Um, our, our generation is probably the last generation of kids who read physical books cover to cover in schools. And we've veered away from that. And I don't think that you can get kids to buy into the idea that reading and writing is important if they're not reading full length works. So our textbooks, um, for the last six years, five years, have been all online. So again, I already talked about how technology is really pervasive. Um, if a kid has, uh, you know, a screen-based textbook, how, how long do you think they're going to sit there and read that textbook before they jump on YouTube? Um, and if they're only reading an excerpt of a book, you know, how much is that story going to resonate with them if they're not reading the full length work? Um, so what I have proposed to the district and I gave it to my, um, department head and he presented my plan for a teacher-based curriculum because all of our state reading list material is, um, you know, they're, they're public works. They're, um, so like we don't have to, they're free, they're free online. Anybody can look them up. Um, so we don't have to pay for the texts that we should be teaching. Um, and then with the use of AI, it's really easy to create these kind of like scaffolded resources that textbooks used to, uh, provide for us. So now there's really no reason for these expensive textbooks because we can create everything that they have, um, in a fraction of the time that we used to be able to. So if, uh, what I proposed is if we switched from these subscription-based textbooks, so that means every single year we pay a subscription for their services. Um, and what we're going with next year will have two textbooks, like a workbook for the kids and then, uh, a paper textbook with all the texts in it. Again, they're mostly excerpts. Like, uh, I teach, um, you know, Letter from Birmingham Jail by Martin Luther King Jr. It's 12 pages long. They, they shortened it, you know, in the book. So when you truncate all this literature and you put it all on a screen or you put it in some consumable that the kid's going to throw away at the end of the year, like, it's a waste of money and it's not the most effective way to teach them. Um, and my team at FMHS has largely adopted these, like, paper-based, uh, full-text methodologies. And it's something that's really enforced with the IB curriculum. I'm not sure if you went through IB. Um, but, you know, IB, we still pick four to six, you know, canonized works, um, to teach the kids their junior and senior year. And it shows in our reading data. I think our district on average is at about a 50% reading professency. And at Fort Myers High, um, we are at 67 or 68% for the year. So we have tons of excess, but when my department head went to the textbook selection committee and proposed this idea and wanted to talk about the, the cost of the three different options that we had, um, the presenter said, it's not your job to worry about, uh, how much the books, the textbooks cost. It's your job to worry about what's most instructionally effective. And that kind of made me upset because it's not instructionally effective, you know, like, and it's costing us all of this money. Um, and so I believe, again, a little birdie told me that some administrators, when they were given their budget cuts, asked, hey, we're not using these textbooks for these classes. It costs our school X amount of money. Can we forego using this textbooks that is not getting used so we can save some of our staff? And the district told them no. And then I presented at the, uh, board meeting and, you know, the same plan kind of outlined that it would save us probably about 15 to 16 of those $17 million we're spending per year just for this one subject area. And, um, an hour later, all seven board members voted for the new textbook. And they even said, like, hey, we kind of, um, are feel a little bit anxious about this and we're going to be able to review this plan for in a year. And then Dr. Shaker, our head of curriculum, confirmed, um, no, it's a five-year contract. So now we're locked into this $17 million a year five-year contract. And it might not even be a resource that we use widely throughout the district because it's not the most instructionally effective. So it's things like that where we have these good ideas. We could save money. We want to be a part of the conversation. And there is no conversation. They don't even, it's just a non, a non-starter. We're not doing this. And I can think like, oh, maybe they want continuity throughout the district. But you're not going to get continuity if you, like, pick a crappy resource that no one's going to use. You know, people are going to go off and do their own things when they realize that it's not really helping their kids learn and grow. So I think that overall the district, especially those people who are higher up, should be taking more of what we have to say to heart. And they should be doing a better job of making us feel heard. I know that there are a lot of candidates so far who aren't even, you know, they haven't even won their office. And they've done more to make me feel heard. And they've asked for my plans and said like, oh, this is really interesting. I didn't know this is how this worked and how we, you know, used our money this way. So it can be done. You know, the powers that be do have time and they should be constantly listening to their community and figuring out exactly what it is that they can do to make the education system better in Lee County.
Interviewer: Sorry.
Chelsea Clarke: No, I talk a lot. I'm sorry.
Interviewer: No, you should not apologize. It is, I think I was also an English major in college and I think it's just, it's making me be like, we really should be reading these long textbooks because like, look at us.
Chelsea Clarke: Yeah. No, it blows me. I'm like, how is the novel a novel idea? Like, how did we get here? And, you know, kids really do enjoy school a lot more when they can read and write well. And so, you know, for me, I'm constantly thinking like, how did we get here? You know, why is our nation falling so far behind? And a lot of it is attention span technology. But a lot of it is that like the instruction that we're giving them in school isn't what it used to be. You know, and of course, every kid's going to hate reading and writing if they're just like answering, you know, main idea questions about a four page essay. Like, that's not going to be that interesting for them. They need to know those stories that we've been telling for thousands of years to, you know, help them understand more about themselves and society and how they fit into society. You know, and I think you and I are testaments to that type of good education because we're sitting here telling stories to each other, more or less. And, you know, figuring out how to connect with those people in our community. And I think that really is like a foundation you learn when you read good books when you're a kid.
Interviewer: It's tough. It's tough to watch. I have historically not been very politically involved or even really, like I said, involved too much in what my kids are doing at school. Like, like I send them there. They they learn the things. The teachers are qualified. Like, everything looks good. I don't get any calls.
Chelsea Clarke: Yeah.
Interviewer: They're happy. Like, that looks right. And I think more more often than not, maybe I'm just, you know, making myself feel better about it. But more often than not, I think that's the situation is we trust our school district. We trust our teachers. We trust the people in charge to make the right decisions. However, it is very frustrating as a parent when you know that the people that have the most information are the people inside the classrooms. But the people inside the classrooms are not being listened to at an adequate level to really make change and make good decisions. Because, like, what a crazy concept would it be if the district took all the teachers and put them in a room and was like, let's workshop all of the major issues surrounding your classroom size, surrounding this. Here's the budget that we're bringing to this. Like, let's make this into an escape room and let's do it together. And, you know, even if we couldn't get everything that we wanted, you know, if we couldn't get the perfect classroom sizes or whatnot, just having us be aware of what the parameters are would make a huge difference.
Chelsea Clarke: I think a lot of the reason why, you know, a lot of the staff at Lee County School District feels disheartened is because these terrible things are happening and we don't really understand what is going on. And there's a lot of hypocrisy, I think. Like, again, like, I'm not trying to make this political or anything either, but I feel like there's a lot of, with currently leadership, tone deafness. Like, a lot of students protested the ICE walk, like they had staged peaceful protest walkouts. And they, we were told as a staff, like, to not acknowledge it. We were told, like, you can't physically stop the student from going, just report that they left and, you know, we'll write the referral. So if the kid decided to participate, they more or less got a referral and or suspended, depending on what type of behaviors or actions they did while they were out of the classroom. And, you know, at our school, it wasn't that disruptive. I didn't even know what happened. So, but I know at some other schools, it did get a little bit out of hand. And the kids didn't necessarily act with decorum in all situations. But then less than 24 hours before May 1st, which is May Day, you know, Workers' Rights Day, we were notified that the governor was coming to Fort Myers High School. And they shut down part of our school. The Little Wave celebration, graduation celebration, was supposed to be in the gym. They kicked him out to the auditorium. And then they did, like, their celebration on a hot bus ramp. They, DeSantis' guys came the day before and shut down a practice that was being held at the gym so they could sweep it for security purposes. They didn't tell our parents. They didn't tell our students. I had students come up to me and ask, Miss Clarke, why is the governor here? There are men walking around with AK-15s or AR-15s. And I was like, oh, okay, I think he's here to sign some legislation. You know, I can't talk about anything political, right? So I have to be very vague. And, you know, that's all I know. But for a kid who's been trained their whole life to worry about school shootings, walk into school one day and then see the security guard with a giant gun, like, that's nerve-wracking. And then for me, to put me, like, into that situation. And it was a private event. No one was allowed to go. And I think it would be really cool if the governor came to a school and signed a piece of legislation, like, in front of the kids. That would be amazing, right? Like, I think that they would be a part of that process. But they were not invited. The staff was not invited. And the legislation that was being signed, the first bill has to do with anti-teacher and nurse union legislation. So it makes it harder for us to keep our unions. And it was branded as, like, an anti-woke combatant. Like, they're trying to combat the woke teacher union. And they left out, like, this bill does not apply to firefighters or police officers. So, you know, teachers and nurses don't get to have their unions, but firefighters and police officers do. The second set of legislation, I think, capped the amount of international students we can have at Florida universities, which is really tone deaf because a lot of our students are, you know, immigrants. And it was on May Day, like, workers' rights day. So you're signing anti-union legislation in a school. You're shutting down part of the school. Like, the PE kids have to all go to the field out back. And then in the same breath, you're telling kids that they don't have the right to peacefully protest against more or less concentration camps. You know, like, some of my students' parents have been deported. They have been in those camps. So for the, like, our superintendent to say, like, you can't have a voice, but we're going to have a voice, even if it means shutting down your school for part of the day, it doesn't really jive with me. And I think that's where a lot of, you know, people are getting frustrated is that it seems like the powers that be get to play by a certain set of rules and everyone else is subjugated to, you know, playing by whatever rule book they decide we have to play by that day.
Interviewer: So as people that are really into books, you might also be familiar with the idea of propaganda and spin and things like that. And I think it is, it is, it is sometimes very, I don't know, over leveraged, maybe this idea of polarity and otherness in order to push through something that might not necessarily be exactly what they're saying it is. And it's, it's very unfortunate that the people on the front lines of our schools who are already largely, and I'm just going to be honest, demoralized, overworked, underpaid, are then also being stripped of their rights to advocate for themselves in a group. And I think historically, when you look at behaviors like that, in real text of any kind, no matter who thinks it should be in the school or not, that that is problematic. And it definitely makes me question, well, given everything that the school district has said about what their priorities are, does that indicate to me that the students are the priority? If the people that sit in front of the students are so challenged and how can you create an environment for success from both a mental health perspective and a performance perspective inside something like that?
Chelsea Clarke: I, I, those are really good questions and this is probably the part where I'm going to cry, but.
Interviewer: Take your time. It's okay.
Chelsea Clarke: You know, I, like I said, I left teaching before and it broke me, you know, like, because I come from a long line of teachers and nurses and, you know, to me, there's no better place in the world than getting to discuss literature with students and to see their eyes open and their brains working and, you know, to have them be inspired and create their own writing. And, you know, you know, after we do something fun in the classroom. And so it's, it almost makes you feel like you're like a drug addict, you know, like, why am I so addicted to this? If it is constantly hurting me, no, we don't get paid a lot. Um, and this past year I worked, I bought a second job and I'm understandable for 10 years. Well, I had, I quit it. Um, unfortunately because my mental health just took a nosedive and, you know, I'm, uh, I have ADHD. So I have the tendency to overwork myself, um, and, you know, to work until I burn out. And, uh, you know, that's definitely the point where it got for me, um, to like, where it is mentally unsafe. But the reason why I was working two jobs is because I had unpaid maternity debt, you know? So I did not have the ability, um, to take off three months for when my son was born. So that was three months of unpaid, um, time. And so we took out like a short-term loan. So I really wanted to pay that off this year so we could afford to have a second child. But in the process, um, you know, I told my restaurant I wanted to work as much as possible. And then we had the busiest year we've ever had. Um, so I was working, you know, four or five nights a week sometimes. So my class time is 49 minutes long for most of my periods. I would spend less time with my own son every day because I would get 15 minutes with him before his dad would take him to school in the morning. I would have 30 minutes in between jobs and he'd be asleep by the time I got home. So it's like my family finally had enough money to pay off our debt and to, you know, start possibly thinking about having a second child. Um, but it came at the cost of me never really being able to spend any time with my own family. And now, like, I'm happy to say that we, we paid off all the debt. But then at the end of this year, my husband was laid off from Cypress Lake High School. He was one of the 18 teachers. He was let go. And he's been working for the school district in some capacity as either a coach or substitute teacher or a teacher since he was 20 years old. He's 42. And he's been a highly effective teacher for the last eight years. Uh, he's a history teacher and ESU certified. He's been basically a dean and an athletic director. And now he doesn't have a job. And so it's like, we put all this time into our community and helping raise other people's children. We can't even afford to have or enjoy our own. And that's kind of like, you know, regardless of our personal situation, there are so many families who's, you know, the either one parent or both parents or teachers that are experiencing this. Um, and if our, as a society, we're not taking care of our teachers and our nurses, you know, what's going to happen? Um, and when, you know, I come to work and I'm tired from two jobs, uh, and I've slept four to six hours a night, you know, like I'm still a pretty damn good teacher under those circumstances. But this whole entire year, I couldn't think, but like, maybe I could have done more. Maybe it could have gotten that kid to pass if I had more energy, you know? So you're constantly beating yourself up for not being able to do more with the limited time and energy you have. And then, you know, to keep dedicating yourself and then to just wake up one day and have 20 years of your husband's career erased like it was nothing. Um, it's a lot, you know, it's a lot for, I think, people to go through. And I know so many after this, like last round of layoffs of people who were let go, who were some of the best administrators and teachers I've ever worked with, you know? So like, what is that saying about us? And, you know, this is at a time where we still have a hundred teachers, um, who are here on visas. And, you know, they're severely underpaid. I think they make like $17,000 a year. So we have, it's like, there are so many layers to this where we're failing our teachers who are of and from this community. Um, and we're also bringing in more people and not really serving them right either. And so it all seems to like not really make a lot of sense from an organizational standpoint. Um, and I feel like it wouldn't hurt as much if it couldn't be fixed. But I feel like there's $2.9 billion or whatever. Like, what are we doing? There's enough money. We just have to figure out the right way to use it. Um, because I don't think it's fair, you know, for your, your kid's teacher to not be able to see their own kids because they have to work two jobs.
Interviewer: No, for sure. Like, that's, that's a lot. And well, you have a sense because we know, we all know the cost of living. We all know that it's going up. We go to the grocery store, you know, and I'm a single mom. So like my ass is like on a calculator, like, okay, what's healthy enough out of the bogos this week? And we are all stretched thin. And so to hear, to hear someone that is such a critical aspect of, you know, hopefully maybe eventually my child's education when he ends up at Fort Myers High School. Um, it's really disheartening. And I think you talked a little bit about why, like what, what made me come back to this. And I think I know because we both went to the same high school and around the same time. And one of my biggest catalysts for why I ended up, I thought I was going to talk about literature forever. I wanted to be an English professor at a major university because a few of my English teachers along the way, including Miss Tomlinson at Fort Myers High School, literally inspired me to just love books. I've always loved books, but she just something about her and it was her as a teacher and for so long in our childhood, our teachers had been teaching for decades. My sister's four years older than me. We both had many of the same teachers. And unfortunately, I feel like we're creating a situation where that's no longer the case because of what I can only refer to as like the office space phenomenon of like, oh, we'll get rid of them and hire on some, you know, brand new grads and pay them less, you know?
Chelsea Clarke: Exactly. Um, and there's, especially for tested subjects. Uh, so like I teach English, English and math are really the main two tested subjects. Uh, there are like science and social studies. Obviously they have certain years that are tested. Um, but the turnover in an English department, even at the greatest, best schools where everyone wants to be, like we probably have two to three members, um, new in an English department, every school I've worked in every single year. Um, and the, just the, the added stress of the tested subject, um, gets to a lot of people, um, you know, and it's not just your metrics like in general, but then you have to deal with like the stress of like individual students. And, um, you know, that's not just your students. Um, and, you know, if a student doesn't perform to the level that their parent thinks that they're capable of, um, you know, then there can be a lot of pushback from that. So I, I do think that, you know, in general, the amount of pressure put on schools and parents and students and staff because of testing, um, is a really big issue. And the progress monitoring, I know our governor was just touting how it's great and it's made our learning gains go up. And the kids, it's complete nonsense. It's like they're a waste of instructional days. The progress monitoring one and two, the kids feel like they don't have to try. You know, it is, it can be really reliable data for me to help my kids and understand where they are. But because by and large, the majority of them don't try because they think it doesn't count. It ends up just being like a waste of a day. Um, and you know, a lot of the kids are super checked out and I don't know if I necessarily blame them because the amount of testing that we do now is phenomenal. Like, and it would be one thing if it perfectly accurate or like articulated what students' skill sets and proficiency levels really are. But I have some kids who are brilliant, you know, and what I would consider to be like at the top of their class. And then they can't pass, um, you know, their test because they're just bad test takers. So, um, yeah, I think the environment in general, because of, of these metrics that we have to meet, it becomes a little unattainable. Like we're not a for-profit business, you know, it's education and you can't break it down into this like data chart that makes sense all the time. Um, there has to be a more holistic approach. I think that would help students and teachers, you know, deal with the stress of these like high stakes testing situations a lot better. Um,
Interviewer: it seems like, it seems like there's so much opportunity and I think it's so unfortunate because if the school district and it's the, I literally read this morning that it's the second highest employer in the area.
Chelsea Clarke: Yeah, behind the memorial.
Interviewer: Yeah, the memorials first. It's, it's very unfortunate that we can't seem to get leadership in place that is really, truly willing to listen and willing to build different metrics for understanding what does success really look like? And can we just continue to blindly call ourselves successful? Well, by some metrics, we're in the lower of that, that top 50 metric for education standards and, and, you know, teacher pay, which I hate to say it, but pay correlates to talent. It definitely does.
Chelsea Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, like I've left teaching before and I don't think that my husband and I will leave education, but we're probably going to be forced to leave Fort Myers. And that really is like, if, if we, then that's what we have to decide, you know, like, are we going to try and continue our careers here or are we going to have to move away? And like, we're raising our son in the house next door to the house that his grandfather grew up in, you know, this fall, my son will be the third generation in his family to go to Fort Myers because he's starting Little Wave. Um, so, you know, we're not done fighting yet, but, um, it is getting to that point where it's just like, if we want to have another kid, if we want to be able to, you know, live in the neighborhood that we teach in, um, we might have to move somewhere else, whether it be a different state or a different country. And then it's like, well, okay, well then what happens after that? You know, what happens to the public education system for everybody else that's here? If we continue to lose all of our best talent, all of the people that grew up here and are the advocates for public education, then it will, it will only decline.
Interviewer: So I, I want to wrap this, um, but I want you to talk to voters quickly for a couple minutes and, and talk to them about how they can be empowered to make change and what, what you hope with the, with the new school. Board in the, in the coming year.
Chelsea Clarke: Yeah, definitely. Um, well, I think the, the best thing that we can all do is to use our voice and to speak when we can. Um, and I understand that a lot of us, uh, because of particular circumstances may not always have the, uh, safety to share their sport, their voice. Um, and that, that's a shame, but if you can definitely start using your voice, um, pay attention to what your candidates are saying. Um, I think that it's pretty obvious who cares and who doesn't. I think it's pretty obvious, um, who has original ideas and who doesn't. Um, I think it's pretty obvious who's in cahoots with whom. Um, and you know, I hope you vote for people who have the community at heart and, you know, public education isn't just about families and it isn't just about people who have kids. Um, you know, because even if you don't have kids and you're retired and, you know, your grandchildren go to school in Michigan or whatever, um, it's still your community. And you're going to benefit from a strong public education system regardless of who you are. Um, so go out there and listen and make sure you vote for the people who really seem to be doing, um, earnest and honest work. And, you know, we learn this in literature all the time that power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. So make sure you're again, looking for those people who aren't aiming to mass any sort of concentration of power and who are honestly just looking to serve their community and make it a better place.
Interviewer: I love that. Thank you so much.
Chelsea Clarke: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.